Need help comparing career recruiting - VT Building Construction v Clemson Construction Management

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Hi all, my S25 has narrowed his choices down to Virginia Tech (building construction major) and Clemson (construction management major). My colleagues on the Class of 25 thread have heard me go on and on and on about these choices.

Long and short of it - VT is cheaper for us (we are in state) but Clemson isn’t that much more expensive and completely doable and under what we are comfortable spending, so the cost isn’t a deciding factor.

He’s admitted to his major at both schools, both schools seem to have strong programs in the major. Both programs assert 100% employment rate at graduation (not within 6 mo or a year.)

I don’t want to discuss/debate the things he liked/disliked about both schools, and the relative merits of them, because Hoo Boy have we been around and around that. But in short:

He loves the vibe at Clemson, he loves the friendliness of the students, he loves the rah rah sports culture, he loves that it isn’t in state and feels more “special” and that he won’t see other people from his HS there. He loves the look and feel of the campus - the architecture, the layout, the large mature trees. The first time we visited he just lit up. Downsides, the program he wants is small - at the recent admitted students event they noted that an average freshman class for his major is 30-35 students. He really wants bigger than that. The info we’ve gotten from the school about the program hasn’t been great, it feels like an afterthought, even in programs that were supposedly to provide information about it. He will have classes mainly in three buildings (1) the building that has art and architecture, which has a hall way for his program (this is where it felt most like an afterthought); (2) the business school, which will teach some of the management classes; and (3) the experiential learning yard, which is off campus on the other side of the large lake. It didn’t feel cohesive.

For VT: positives are the location, it’s about half the driving time, and he seems to be allergic to less things there (we visited the same weekend last year, and concurrent weeks this year, both times he was struggling with allergies at Clemson and home, but not VT). Food is fantastic. He really liked the slightly broader downtown and social scene that we could see on a Friday night (we visited both areas on Friday nights then Saturday mornings.) The facilities for his major are fantastic - they just built a new building on campus, it’s gorgeous and well equipped. Classes are also offered in two other conveniently located building. There is a dining hall co-located with the building that would have the majority of his classes. Downsides - it doesn’t “feel special” to him, lots of students from his HS will attend. He doesn’t particularly care for the architecture or the layout of the campus, wishes it felt warmer, had more large old growth trees. He said the people on campus looked just like people at home, and he’d like something different. The campus didn’t have the same welcoming homey vibe to him as Clemson. Sports are not as good.

Honestly, we’re splitting hairs here. He can be happy and successful at both/either.

I don’t want to overwhelm him with data, as he knows I have a preference and I’m trying to stop hitting him with my choice. But I do think it would be useful to see where employers are located, and what kind of employers they are.

Like, does Clemson tend to send Construction Management grads more to South Carolina or the Atlanta region and VT sends Building Construction more to DC/Richmond/NC? Or do both schools send grads to companies that have nationwide projects? I don’t know, but how can I find that out? With a job that could well entail spending time outdoors in the summer, there’s a notable difference between the deep-south and the mid-atlantic. Also, how can I compare what kind of firms they are? Like if he wants to work on big heavy civil projects, or more like residential construction, is there a way to see if grads from one school do more business, if you will, with a certain type of industry?

I’m fully aware that both schools send people to all areas of the country, and in all kinds of industry. But if there’s a way to see well, this school leans more X and this one more Y, then that might be useful data.

Any other suggestions for big picture metrics that he should be thinking about as he compares the schools?

I’m struggling (as many of you know) with this, as I think there is a clear better choice for him, but, at least before the two admitted students weekends, it wasn’t the choice calling to his heart. We can afford both, he’ll do well at both, I will be happy with whatever he chooses because I know he’ll be successful. I just need to convince myself of that…

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Congratulations on his great choices!

Your S should reach out to the career centers and/or the head of each academic department to ask these outcome questions, after he’s looked at what is available online, see below.

For Clemson there is some data here, including salaries, and top 20 employers for the construction mgmt degrees:

And here is Va Tech’s outcomes for the major:

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Thank you! I had played on both colleges web sites (I’m bored this afternoon, he’s struggling to finish end of quarter assignments and prep for tests, so he’s not doing this) and I found links to job fairs and who came, but wasn’t finding the outcomes tabs. That will help me set up some comparison info for him to look at if he’s interested.

We’ve gotten very good data from VT, had a really thorough presentation and tour, and got lots of handouts and links. He’s asked multiple times for information from Clemson and keeps being given answers and data that relate to the entire sub-college (which also includes Art and Architecture, and focuses more on Architecture). Which I suspect is because the program is so small. But it’s been frustrating.

He’s planning to reach out to Clemson again, and ask to speak with someone from the Department. When he did the tour that was supposed to be specific to the Department and recommended for his major, there was no discussion and the tour leader couldn’t answer any questions other than Art and Architecture. Same thing at admitted students day, he went to the breakout for his sub-College and the person speaking could only speak to Art and Architecture, and all the students on the panel were from Architecture.

He was hoping to have information presented about the program, but, failing that, he’s now trying to think of good questions to ask so he can have a productive conversation.

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Gently, I think you need to let this go. I’ve been following your posts in Class of 25 and it seems like your son has a clear preference for Clemson. He’s deciding between two very good schools with great alumni connections and name recognition. It would be one thing if Clemson didn’t offer his major. Let him choose his path and support his decision. From how you’ve described him, I have no doubt he will soar and do whatever it takes to be successful. Would you really be happier knowing he chose a school based on your analysis even though he “lit up” somewhere else?

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What I say and ask here, is not at all the same as the approach I’m taking with him. I talk a lot here on CC about my worries and wishes that I don’t share with him. You’ve seen a lot more than he has.

I’m well aware that I need to be ready to support whichever decision he makes, and I will do that. I agree, he’s going to do great, whichever way he goes. Because we got such poor information at Clemson on admitted students day, he’s asked for some additional data. I’m trying to figure out how to tee that up for him.

No, I don’t want him to choose a school just to please me. But I also don’t want him to choose a school just because a guy said “'sup” to him and was friendly as we were walking by, and because the girls had better hair and dressed in cuter clothes and because their football team is better. All of which, honest to god, seem like his main reasons right now.

I don’t want him to choose to please me, but I do want him to choose based on thinking about more substantial things and weighing them at least equally.

And, while it’s not obvious, particularly to the people from the Class of 25 thread who know how I’ve struggled with this, I’m trying to get the career outcome data now to support Clemson, not VT. The presentation we received at Clemson was so poor, that he’s having a hard time comparing them fairly. He said, repeatedly, something along the lines of “I wish Clemson had talked about this” or “I’m sure Clemson is good at this too, just no one said anything” and it’s making him less comfortable with what seems to be his choice. I want him to feel good about making a choice on all fronts, and since Clemson fell down on the data presentation, I want to give him something to look at.

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I totally get that and wanting him to make an informed decision. At the end of the day, he’s 18 and those things like a better football team, overall vibe of the campus and pretty girls are probably almost as important to him as career outcomes!! Hopefully you can find some good stats from Clemson to make you both feel better about which way he’s leaning.

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It looks like the outcome info I linked above by major does not include art and architecture, just construction mgmt. Mean salaries at these schools for these majors seem basically the same…$68K Clemson, $70K VT.

What is he looking for beyond the stats on their website?

I wouldn’t judge his reasons. Definitely could be other unspoken reasons too. He has to decide somehow. I would be surprised if there is any meaningful difference in outcomes for this major at the two schools, not to mention…there’s probably not an insignificant chance he changes majors.

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Ack! Don’t say the change major part! That’s one of my bugaboos… he does have a second and third choice of major and they aren’t offered at Clemson. This does not matter to him.

Re: information, the website does have a good bit, which is helpful. But he wanted to hear more about the classes - how theoretical v hands on; and the project work - what percentage of kids participate and how well supported are competition project teams by the school. He wanted to hear what it’s like being in a smaller group of students at a larger school, and about pacing of classes and required internship hours (Clemson requires several hundred hours - do most students do those over the summer or are the away for semesters of the year?). Does the program help with career placement? If so, how. Are professors accessible? Much of the Clemson faculty for the program appear to be guest lecturers, if they are part time professors, are there people consistently available for the four years who can help with bigger picture academic questions or relationship building within the Department?

I’m not sure he would’ve thought of all of those things, but they were all things touched on during the presentation at VT. It would be nice to compare how the two schools tackle some of those less substantive things.

At Clemson, the person giving the presentation couldn’t even tell us if there was a bus to get to the off campus site where some classes would be held. She didn’t know what was available there (is there food if you are there over lunch time) what type of equipment was there (is it just the heavy equipment like the front end loader in the picture on the website or is there a shop with wood working tools or cement work area or tech tools). We didn’t ask, but I wondered if there are projects that would require students to use those tools and, if so and since it’s off site, what’s the security in that location and how could my child get back to campus late at night (she talked at length about the evening work the architecture students put in on projects in their space - but there space is on campus with all the typical campus security and short walk back to dorms.)

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I’ve said it before, Clemson sells “college” really well. The branding for Clemson is excellent.

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I was thinking about you, so looked up to see what you guys had decided. Looks like you have a Tiger. Congratulations! I’m sure he’ll do great, and glad you have a decision, which is a relief in itself. We’re in NC, so last year for our daughter, it quickly came down to NCSU or VT. There were alot of reason she chose VT (we weren’t weighing BC programs at that point), but one was to frankly get away from alot of HS folks. And she wanted to do something different. There were 4 kids from her ~450 class that went to VT. First day of class, a girl turns around and ask “didn’t you go to XYZ high school with me”. Yep. Then she sighed because on a campus that big, she finds 1 of the 4 she graduated high school with on the first day of school. Ha! Besides that experience, she’s only seen the others in passing, but my kid gets that part of the decision.

However, back to your question - career recruiting. My husband works for a large construction material wholesaler and runs sales teams on the east coast for his division (which specializes on facilities, but he used to work alot with mechanical contractors). We met working in the DC Metro market for said company (but then I left the company for govt contracting, and he’s still there almost 30 years later). They sent us to the gulf cost of Alabama about 15 years ago, worked with large mechanical contractors for about 6 years, and now we’re outside of Winston-Salem NC. I say all of that because while I have no direct info about recruiters, we do have some knowledge of the market in the SE, and BC programs now. :wink:

Commercial construction has been a little soft for a year or more. Who knows where it goes from here, but I think schools like Clemson & VT are putting out a high level product, and are attracting different recruiters (because I looked) than the colleges in NC that are offering contruction mgmt degrees. I think (or maybe it’s wishful thinking) those grads will be insulated from a construction downturn. The contractor my daughter is interning (and met at the VT career fair) for this summer is headquartered in Winston Salem, but has an office in Greenville SC, & Savannah GA. Another local W-S company who interviewed her has an office in Charlotte, as well as Columbia, SC. DPR made her a offer to work in Raleigh; they’re enormous and international. Samet was another large contractor she talked to from Greensboro, with offices in Charleston, SC, Savannah, GA, Charlotte, Wilmington. My point is…alot of these mid to large size firms have offices all over the south.

Actually, I just looked up Clemson’s spring job fair attendees. I recognize alot of the names as being contractors that work around here and/or were at VT career fair and, yep, DPR is there, as is Samet. So is Holder (the daughter of one of the VP’s of my husband’s company is a Jr in the VT program, she has interned for Holder in NoVA…so hey, that’s great news b/c he could potentially find post-freshman internship options in NoVA if he wanted). Vannoy is located here in Winston-Salem, great company I’m told. The kicker is WM Jordan was there - they’re out of Newport News. One of the founders is Bill Lawson. His son is John Lawson…so the Myers-Lawson School of Construction at VT- yeah, it’s that family. John is on the VT MLSOC Executive Board.

So this is a very long winded way of saying, he could end up alot of places, but it’s definitely not out of the realm of possibility that he still could end up in NC, or maybe even Richmond/Tidewater area. Generally speaking, we have alot of Clemson alum/fans around here in NC.

You mentioned commercial vs residential…heck, you’ve been to more construction information sessions than me! :wink: But from what we gather this is all predominantly commercial based recruiting. My daughter has an interest long term in becoming a custom home builder, so she’d like to come back to residential. I sort of think of working for the large general commercial contractors as almost like the business kids going to work in consulting. They do their time, learn the business and skill set, then move on. She’s working this summer for a design-built firm, which I think is a good fit for her, because she likes the design aspect. She also went to the “competitive construction teams” fair at VT this past week. I wasn’t expecting her to call and say she liked the concrete team (that had more to do with the personalities of the team members and less about the actual work). They had teams for design-built, heavy civil, etc…about 4 or 5 different teams, where evidently they do case studies and are judged by industry professionals. No doubt they have teams in Clemson too.

Again, congratulations on having a decision. I hope this gives you a little more hope about post-college options. I was glad to read your perspective about the VT BC presentation. I don’t disagree that I think BC is a side attraction to the COE majors, but I’m not sure where else it makes sense.

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Thank you for all of this! I really appreciate. As a lot of folks on here know, I was really pulling for VT. And after the presentation, only more so. They really did a great job at the BC presentation and it truly felt like they are a supportive faculty helping their students be successful in school and after. The students on the panel who spoke were very articulate and had all different and interesting experiences, and the campus just showed itself off beautifully.

But… we now have 21 students from our HS going there and, even separate from that, the campus looks like our area. Like if we transported all the seniors from our three local HSs to campus and swapped them out with the current freshman class, it wouldn’t be noticeably different. And I think that’s what ultimately S25 is pushing against. He’s always been my kid who likes exploring new things, who craves getting outside of his comfort zone, who wants to try the food he’s never heard of or drive down the unmarked road because who knows where it could lead. And Clemson felt different and VT felt like home.

Risk averse soul that I am, “feels like home” would be a selling point to me. Clearly not for him.

So ultimately Clemson is what he went with. I am still nervous about their building construction program, as they have failed to sell it to me in any way, despite three different attempts to learn more about it. But it is what it is.

Anyhoo, thank you for your thoughts and advice and support through this. I’m excited for your daughter. Heck, after the tour my husband was ready to sign up for the VT BC program!

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I get it. My Hokie walks around campus with her NoVA friends and says “it’s so weird they see people they know all the time.” She met a girl the first few weeks of school that is her best friend now. She joined a leadership group the first month, where they were paired with a “twin” and a mentor. The guy she was paired with went to high school with her bestie (as did his roommate). So it’s a small world. On the flipside, she’s been to Raleigh to see her State friends, and finds it weird to walk around campus there and bump into high school people. She’s always glad to go back to her sort of anonymous life in Blacksburg. We’re only 2+ hours from Blacksburg but with all of the VA based students, and frankly OOS students, it’s a bit “exotic” for her (only 18% of students at NC public schools are OOS/international…so it’s a bit of a different experience than her HS friends are largely having).

I’m sure he’ll do great things at Clemson! And for sure it’ll be a different ‘vibe’ than NoVA. But if for some reason it doesn’t live up to expectations, their course work seems pretty similar to VT’s, so I would think transferring without too much trouble might be possible.

Edit to add: Also, very glad to help. I think the BC/CM programs are fantastic, but there aren’t many parents that know much about them. So glad I stumbled upon your post and you found my rambling helpful. :wink: I’ll echo what a parent told me on here, kids tend to end up where they’re suppose to flourish. If you had asked me 18 months ago, if she’d be considering BC at VT, I would have a laughed. Now, you get to go visit Lake Hartwell! And Greenville is such a cute small city. You get to explore new areas as well! :heart:

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Congrats on Clemson! Glad you were able to let your kiddo make their final choice. That is a wonderful gift. As I have mentioned, please take care when reviewing career outcome data. It can have its limitations and skewed results, based on the self reports and sometimes very limited data, discussed here : Problems and limitations with College career outcome reports: reading between the lines

Given the uncertainty with job prospects, college research funding etc in the next several years, current outcome data may be even less meaningful int he coming years, when the class of 2029 graduates.