We think about work/life balance early because most of us grew up with mothers who had the double shift of work and then housework. (I’m not one of those people but I certainly saw it when I was with friends.)
I knew I wanted a career and if I wanted kids, I’d have to have a partner who was the primary caregiver. And yes, these were things I was thinking about at 18.
My husband knew what he wanted to be when he was only 12 and he became one and is still going strong 
Go to the website/blog called “Mothers In Medicine”
You will get a very real and balanced view of what it is like to be a woman in medicine. For those who really want it, it is rewarding. But it is also grueling and demanding. Some of them barely took two weeks of maternity leave. Some of them have let their parents raise their kids for almost a year while they finished a residency. It sounds brutal to me as a mom who has always loved the balance I have had in my career. There are many many posts (check the “mailbag” section of the blog) from women who have quit medicine and women who hate it and are miserable.
There are also many many posts from women and moms who love it all and are managing just fine. You and your daughter need to read those posts as well. See what those women have that makes them tick, what drives them and how they have managed to find happiness in both. If your daughter sees some of her own characteristics in those women, then by all means encourage this pursuit.
I am the opposite of Blossom and honestly my daughter gives me some grief about it (she is very much a feminist at this point) I think our entire generation was sold a big lie…you really cannot have it all. Something will give. I WANT my daughter to consider lifestyle and balance when choosing a career. Better to look for something like that at the beginning and find a career suitable to these needs than to graduate and work the 9-5 grind for a few years and stop working completely for years and years.
I would never want my daughter to limit herself and I am very aware that many women have created a family friendly position and forged a way for themselves. But weighing all the options beforehand is a good thing. I cannot even begin to list the women I know with graduate degrees who have not worked in over ten years because it’s just too much balance it all…and THAT situation is what I want to prevent with my daughter.
Or tell your D to marry a spouse who is just as committed to raising a healthy family as she is.
That’s my point. Why is this generation of HS girls being sold the story that THEY need to throttle back… even before they are done with college?
I wasn’t sold a lie. I was told I could be anything I wanted to be. I learned the hard way that two ambitious people raising kids need to learn to give and take. Spouse didn’t take every single promotion/transfer/step up he was offered and neither did I. But I didn’t take 15 years out of the workforce- like some of my close friends- and discover that between being a part-time yoga instructor and a part time party planner, you could barely cover your commuting costs.
Why are the girls being shunted into the family friendly jobs?
My doctor friends are ALL miserable, not just the women. Terrible time in medicine, or so they say. Working twice as hard to make half as much. Spending every spare moment learning new insurance coding protocols, not reading medical journals. Malpractice premiums that continue to go up… even for physicians who have never had a claim.
So while I’m sympathetic to the unique challenges of being female and a doctor- show me a doctor who ISN’T complaining right now??? (in the US. My doctor cousins in Europe are happy and fulfilled. They are civil servants, they make a comfortable but not huge salary, and they get 6 weeks of vacation every year with no “on call” duty during that time).
@carachel2 Best advice ever! Thank you so much and I will definitely share this with my daughter
@mackinaw I paraphrased your story with my S a few weeks ago. He’s reflecting on high school. And in a general way, I asked about his good teachers and bad teachers over the years - who they were and why he put them in this category or that. I then asked him which teacher he had heard about that he wished he had taken. So after he answered, I casually but specifically pointed out that when he is in college and he hears about a teacher or course that is really good or worthwhile that he should take it. His APs and work ethic will afford him the flexibility to take classes that may not fit his major/concentration but those extra classes will enhance him in ways he won’t even know. I’ll remind him again to keep his mind open to those things. So thank you so much for bringing this up.
So … she has an interest in medicine. Her undergraduate years will be dedicated to getting top grades in the required courses to apply to med school – or to vet school. Pretty much the same group of courses. In addition, she’ll have some time for electives that might point her in a specific direction and she’ll have several summers and school breaks to explore different careers within the med/vet continuum. By the way, I know a veterinary neurologist who saved my dog’s life. There are some pretty high powered veterinary specialists also.
Second, third and fourth this advice. I never regretted taking the legendary courses even when they were completely outside my wheelhouse.
My advice to freshman. Take at least one small seminar, at least one lecture style course, something in the prospective major (or a prerequisite) at least one Gen Ed course, and at least one course in something you’ve never been exposed to in high school (Linguistics, Anthropology - things not offered in high school.) If you are considering a major with a lot of pre-requisites take a careful look and make sure you don’t make it impossible to graduate on time by missing something. Don’t tie yourself down to more than one full year course.
I wouldn’t even mention think about whether or not she’s smart enough to be a neurologist. If the college accepted her, they probably feel she’s prepared for the majors offered.
Many professions can be more or less family friendly. It turns out that being a self-employed architect, doing mostly additions and renovations was very family friendly. Working for a big corporate firm would have been much less so.
A neurologist could also concentrate on research, but it’s a pretty terrible time to do science research. Very stressful.
Blossom said:
“OP- tell your D to sign up for organic chemistry and check back in with you on her career planning after that. Let her enjoy Freshman year without the pressure of “where is this going” hanging on her.”
This, this, this!!!
You are about 5 steps ahead of your daughter, here.
No matter what your daughter might want to do, she’s going to have to do very, very well in the same core biology, chemistry and math classes as an undergrad. Let her get started in those classes, many of which are “weeder” classes, and see how she feels.
(This reminds me of a young family friend who hadn’t gotten into medical school the first time he applied, but was continuing to be ridiculously picky about what schools he would apply to the next year because he wanted a “top orthopedics residency”. “Top” residency is a meaningless goal if you cant get into ANY medical school because of mediocre grades and MCAT scores.)
Concentrate on the grades and workload right now before you jump into neurology.
There’s a saying that occasionally pops up here in premed forums or on SDN, ie getting into med school is a marathon not a sprint. Go on your family vacation. Talk to your D about her future. If it’s medicine, there’s no reason she has to hit ground running and start premed seqs on day 1. It’s okay if she takes a semester, quarter, year, to take a variety of courses and participate in ECs which could confirm a decision about med or vet school, or spin her off onto a completely new pathway. The only thing I add if she does tap on the brakes at the beginning, she still has to make sure she gets good grades especially if she still plans to pursue med. Also she doesn’t have to be a bio major for med school. Good luck.
^^THIS!!!
I agree with Blossom, but think maybe romanigypsyeyes has a point. My D is 21 and I am advising her to make the most of her educational and travel opportunities before she has any other commitments. And to get some financial independence before she makes any big decisions about kids. There are lots of paths to take in college, and your D will learn a lot about herself in that time. Let her grow into her life instead of mapping it out.
Now I have just read the exchange between blossom and carachel. That is the long-term issue for women in a nut shell. Thank you both. Daughters out there, good luck, you will need some of that, too.
I have two teenage daughters and we have similar conversations-have for years. You can have everything, but you can’t have it all at the same time without someone getting the fuzzy end of the lollypop; whether it’s your kids, your spouse, or your career. You can’t go full-bore on all three all at the same time without eventually destroying yourself or others in the process. I have yet to meet anyone in my peer group who can do it, and I’m seeing the collateral damage all the time.
We live a long time now-there is time to do some version of all of these things in life and be happy. You may be a happy podiatrist instead of a rock star neurosurgeon, you may have two kids instead of six, you may not get married until later.
The more you can talk about what to do when and the less dogmatic you are about the external benefits of achievements (ie doing good for the world), I think the happier you end up.
@MotherOfDragons ^^^ YES! This is kind of what I meant to say. You can’t have it all at once. I think encouraging our kids to go all out and do whatever they dream is just as harmful as telling them “well you should ONLY consider choosing a career that is family friendly.”
Just by having the dialogue and talking about your own life and how you’ve had career and family…but not necessarily all at once is helpful. We don’t need to make it so black and white.
I he a career and kids…but I wasn’t a doctor. I worked full time until I retired in 2011. My kids both saw the compromises we made, and also how,we needed to work together as a family. My husband was a HUGE reason I could do,what I did. He and I shared the work at home. A team effort. Kids saw that!
Just to clarify, I don’t think my parents ever really had a “talk” about whether or not I wanted a family or career or whatever when I got older. I just learned from watching many woman do the double shift that I would never put myself in that situation if at all possible. Their advice was to do whatever made me happy and fit in a partner around that. The only thing they encouraged was for me to never, ever give up my dreams for a partner- even if we were married. They would’ve told me that regardless of my sex.
So when I first started dating my now-spouse, I made it clear that my career was going to come first and he was welcome to fit around that (or not and we would’ve remained friends!). Luckily for me, he wanted to be a SAHD. We don’t have kids yet (and may not for several years due to health issues) but so far it has worked. I have done everything I’ve wanted to and more and he’s conformed to me and my path in life. If we had both been career-driven individuals, our relationship never would’ve worked.
If you’re going to have a talk with your daughter about anything, IMO, it might be about making sure that whatever she does and whatever choices she makes that she do them for herself and not for anyone else. (But again, I still think you should just enjoy the vacation!)
This seems like a show boat to me. Suspect of who needs it to be “something bigger impact” than a veterinarian. A lot of kids want to be astronauts, major league baseball players, the president or even a scientist. At 17, this student has not had the time to prove in any way that this field is possible, or would even know if it actually appeals to her unless she has done a internship or shadowed a doc for some time, and actually made headway in the education track for it. She does probably know that she is, or is not, interested in animals, but it seems that career is being dismissed. I question by who. I would want my child to do what makes them happy, not what sounds good to strangers and family. This seems like the parent’s dream for now. Hope student is able to do what they want, without mom guilt. That’s brutal stuff.
I see no reason to angst now about work life balance. Health care is changing so rapidly in 7+ years when she’s ready to practice, who knows what it will look like. Probably true for every profession.
I am career driven and spouse is career driven and there were years when I attended all the parent teacher conferences alone, years when HE attended alone, and years when we both attended.
I’m not saying that my way is the right way. But I believe that putting the issue on the shoulders of a 17 year old girl is unfair. Let her first decide what she wants to be when she grows up. Then she can find a spouse (or not) and have kids (or not) and figure out whose turn it is to go full bore on the job and who needs to dial it back for a few years so the kids have a consistent and continuing presence. Husbands die. Marriages dissolve. People who plan to have 5 kids discover they can’t have any. How sad to wake up at 40 stuck in the “flexible career so I can raise kids” profession when the kids never came or the spouse never materialized. Or to wake up at 40 with three kids and a low paying job and dim prospects for putting your OWN kids through college… (had to dial it back to Mommy track, now Dad is dead and the path back to a well paying career isn’t going to happen).
I’ve got several friends already widowed in their 40’s and 50’s. If you think divorce is bad for women financially, imagine what an early widowhood can mean.
But a 17 year old doesn’t need to go there right now- especially if she’s still dreaming of neurology or vet school!