Hi everyone,
Before D leaves us to college, we are going on a family trip and will discuss some big topics like we usually do (family tradition). This time we will talk about D’s new plan in her career path from becoming a veterinarian to something bigger. Someone can pose a bigger impact. She was thinking neurologist. I know it’s a different world and I do want to see if this is a good fit for her. She is very strong in Biology and has a tremendous interest in it. She doesn’t mind another 10+ years of school because she loves to learn. I know she has another few years to consider but we would like to frame an early mindset and plan accordingly.
To me, I see three big criteria to discuss. 1. Does she have the ability? 2. Will she get the financial support? 3. Is that a lifestyle she will be happy having (probably can’t have too many children and less family life?)
Answer to #1. I see it in her but maybe I am being naive
Answer to #2. She will get the support from us if she needs it
Answer to #3. What kind of lifestyle will a Neurologist have? I have no idea
Does anyone want to help adding more questions and information? We need more input from people who are wiser and more knowledgeable on the subject. Any neurologist or family out there to share their experience?
Always appreciate the knowledge and wisdom from people on CC site,
:x
My only input would be to tell her the following:
[ul] - Her path is ultimately her decision
- Try to find her passion
- Realize that she might change her mind and that’s ok
- You’ll support her no matter what
- Not everything works out as expected, and that’s also ok
- She makes her choices for her own sake, not for anybody else
- Her health and happiness should always come first[/ul]
My suggestion…go on your family vacation. Have fun, and enjoy the time together. I just can’t understand why you would discuss her ability and future plans when she hasn’t started college yet. How about celebrating her last vacation with you before heading to college?
This conversation sounds like one that could be discouraging…I mean really…you plan to ask if she has the ability to follow her dream?
I think this is over the top unnecessary at the last summer vacation before college. Enjoy your daughter…and tell her how proud you are of her achievements thus far…and wish her well as she moves forward.
What interests her about neurology? Is she interested in practicing medicine with neurology as a specialty? Or is she interested in doing research in this field?
I think that all she needs to do right now is talk with her faculty advisor – and possibly the health careers advising people – at her college to find out what she would need to do to prepare for this possible career. She will probably find out that there is considerable overlap between the requirements for medical school (or, if her interest is in research, for graduate study in neuroscience) and the requirements for admission to veterinary school, which means that she doesn’t need to decide right away. But she may want to arrange for some experiences (working in a research lab? summer job in a veterinary clinic?) that would give her a sneak preview of the careers she is considering.
Also, I would completely omit “Does she have the ability?” from the discussion. Girls get too much of that negative messaging, in my opinion, especially when it comes to science.
I know with kids who are considering becoming veterinarians, shadowing an actual veterinarian is often done. I don’t know if this is possible with a neurologist, but I know a pediatric neurosurgeon, and we’ve picked his brain (pun intended) over the years about his career and college choices (he did the IB diploma in high school, went to a florida public college).
He seems like a happy guy with a fairly good work/life balance, but part of that is because of his inherent personality.I don’t think you could shadow him given HIPA privacy stuff and the nature of his specialty, but it might be possible to find and talk to a neurologist, especially the pediatric ones-they seem to be fairly friendly.
“becoming a veterinarian to something bigger. Someone can pose a bigger impact. She was thinking neurologist.” - The neurologist is nohow bigger than veterinarian. I believe that it is much harder to get into vet. school than Med. school. On the other note, one who in fact is going to med. school cannot realistically have a dream for certain specialty before going thru rotations at med. school. Medical students usually change their mind and some - several times. That seem to be a topic of futile discussion.
IMO, you don’t ever bring up whether or not one has the “ability” especially since it seems like this is not a field you know well. She is going to college. If this isn’t the field for her, she’ll figure it out.
I agree with thumper. Go on a family vacation. She doesn’t have to have her life planned at 18. She will probably change her mind 10 times before she graduates (and after!) about what career she wants.
Enjoy these last few months and relax.
Maybe neurologists have it a little easier than other specialists. My W’s neurologist offered to let D shadow him and even assist on a paper for publication. Meanwhile when she talked to a surgeon about a career in surgery he was immediately, “No! Don’t become a surgeon!” :))
It’s way too early to discuss a medical specialty. Your daughter still has a lot of learning and growing to do.
@thumper1 sorry if that gives you a wrong idea of what our vacation means to you. We are a small family of 3 and are very close to each other. We spend a lot of time together but there’s always distraction here and there because both H and D have a very active mind. We accidentally found out going away from home always ended up with a lot of valuable discussions that actually helped the family to plan ahead. D enjoys it so much and she actually asks for it all the time. It’s not forced. It’s just the nature and the character of this family.
About the ability aspect, she wanted to know if it’s feasible. D is very realistic and practical. She gets confident if she sees it in the future. She sees it as a great way to focus on something. She had done it and did achieve quite a few things based on this kind of thinking. I understand what your concern is but it is just the way this family is. I go with the flow because I am the least intelligent out of the three. The two rule the family culture. 
The discussions may not be forced, but your three “big criteria” certainly are. Just listen to her. Ask probing questions about what SHE is thinking and feeling, leaving out questions that has to do with ability - that’s an unknown right now), or what kind of a lifestyle she may or may not have as a neurologist (or even as a vet) - that’s also an unknown right now. What kind of a lifestyle a “typical” neurologist has today may be very different from the lifestyle a neurologist may have 10 years from now, with advances in technology and changes in the general health care environment. And a lot depends on her own personality. I know doctors with small families and doctors with large families. I know happy doctors and unhappy doctors, those who feel they have a good work/life balance and those who don’t.
Of course, telling her that she’ll get whatever financial support from you that she needs is great, since you do know your own answer to that question.
And don’t forget that most kids change their majors at least three times during their college career. Yours may not, but it’s not carved in stone for at least two more years.
@anomander wrote
lol 
Neither kid is interested in becoming an MD, but they were interested in hearing about how he chose his path and why he chose his path. It was illuminating.
It will not be a set in stone conversation in the family but we just want to casually discuss it over vacation. I just have a feeling that if it doesn’t happen in the future then there’s no harm. But if we talked about it and if helped, then at least we would have done what we needed to. No matter what, D will have no pressure to do whatever she wants because I don’t control her at all and never have…
I am sad that the current generation of young women are getting the message that at age 17 they need to worry about lifestyle when thinking about careers.
There is a lot to criticize about my generation of women and our feminist leanings/ideals. But NONE of us were thinking about work/life balance before we even started college!
I’ve noticed this a lot lately. 18 year old’s thinking about speech therapy and they already know they want to work in a school system so they don’t have to worry about school vacations and what to do with their children that they don’t have yet. 19 year old’s who have decided that law school is too intense for a mom.
Yikes.
OP- tell your D to sign up for organic chemistry and check back in with you on her career planning after that. Let her enjoy Freshman year without the pressure of “where is this going” hanging on her.
I appreciate your point @Blossom but have the opposite feeling in that I think it’s wise to consider lifestyle fairly early in the process. Both of my sons (!) have done this a bit.
When I went to law school I truly did not consider how un-mommy-friendly law can be (of course many women balance it well and make it all work).
Of course you never know what life will bring. I do not like when young women limit themselves prematurely.
ETA: OP, I agree that this topic is a little “heavy” for a vacation, though I see where you are coming from. I would just be careful to not put (even implicitly) expectations on your daughter. She will not want to let you down.
Being a 7th year associate in a big Chicago law firm is distinctly un-mommy friendly. Being GC of a medium sized corporation can be wonderfully mommy-friendly. My point is that at age 17, young people don’t have a granular understanding of different fields, so they lack the perspective which could tell them how or when to pursue a particular track based on their interests.
One of my kids recently transitioned from a tough, 24/7 type of company which was exceptionally competitive, rough and tumble corporate culture and constant and unpredictable travel. Wonderful training and highly regarded in its field- but a tough lifestyle. At age 22 I’d have been appalled if this kid had turned down this incredible opportunity for the sake of the “not yet born” children. The current job is at a phenomenal company with incredible maternity and paternity benefits, flex time, work from home options, etc. How do you get a great job with a company like that? First you train at a company like the 24/7 one…
Unless your kids want to start having babies the day they graduate from college, why not give them a few years to fully focus on their professions before they have to start dialing it back???
"About the ability aspect, she wanted to know if it’s feasible. D is very realistic and practical. "- Any hard working student can become anything she wishes, no genius is required for either vet. or MD, but tons and tons of very hard work - from the parent of the first year resident, who is working much much harder than ever in her life.
@kchendds I think it’s good to have some thinking about choices and decisions that may be made once your daughter arrives at college. Along this line, I have two suggestions for how to think about college.
- MURPHY'S LAW. "If anything can possibly go wrong, it will." I'm not predicting this, but you have to realize that some choices will be constrained, the student could become ill (as my DD did, coming down with mono her first semester in college). But more likely is that once she is on the ground she will discover interesting possibilities that no amount of prior planning would have made her aware of. So as a general rule, I'd say, "keep your focus" but "be prepared to seize opportunities or to explore alternatives" as they may appear.
In the same spirit, once she is on the ground, she may find out fairly quickly that she’s not as interested in her original major or the alternatives discussed. Or some chance events may disrupt your best laid plans. This is NORMAL. I recommend that you read this CC discussion in which parents here talk about their own changes of major and career path. (I contributed to this thread.) http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1888163-parents-how-many-changes-of-major-how-many-career-changes.html#latest
- AVUNCULAR ADVICE. Before I set off for college, my uncle, who was a college professor (Caltech) gave me this advice. "Once you get to campus and have a semester or two under your belt, you are going to hear about some professor or some course that many students rave about. This may be in a subject that seems to be outside your immediate curriculum plan, maybe outside your core talents or interests. But you should TAKE that course."
His logic was that great, inspiring lecturers are rare enough that you really want to see one in action, to expose yourself to ideas or intellectual passion when you find it. Also, you are young. You should keep an open mind and allow yourself to be inspired. In retrospect, I think Uncle’s advice was the very best that I received before I set off for college. There was such a course – well outside my major interests – in calligraphy, of all things. Taught by Lloyd Reynolds in my era, and then by Rev. Robert Palatino (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/arts/design/rev-robert-palladino-83-scribe-who-shaped-apples-fonts.html). I didn’t take my uncle’s advice. But Steve Jobs did take that course – and it was an inspiration for the fonts that he developed at Apple Computer.
I am not saying “look for a course in calligraphy.” I’m saying “be open to inspiration,” to thinking outside your comfort zone.
I think it’s good for kids to know what kinds of questions to ask themselves… how to look at their options and create their future. But to actually discuss “abilities” or “making a greater/lesser impact” is going too far, I think. Ultimately, success if often tied less to ability than to persistence and “grit.” And “making an impact” is so absolutely subjective as to almost not be worth discussing, except in the most abstract way. There is no way you will convince a kindergarten teacher that he/she has a greater or lesser impact than, say, a gardener or a neurosurgeon. No way you will convince most people, in fact.