We agree. Facts & specifics are important. Case-by-case analysis of what negotiating approach to take if any at all.
As always, interesting to see different opinions and ideas. I think she will ask if there is any flexibility on the salary based upon her current compensation in an email and see what they say.
What makes you upset that someone chooses a lower pay job with better work-life balance, regardless of age, marital status, and parenthood status?
Someone who has no debt and is living substantially below his/her pay in the lower paid job (and hence on track for both short and long term financial goals) may not feel that earning even substantially more is worth a significantly worse work-life balance.
Now, if the person in question was heavily indebted from law school or whatever and/or is always complaining about not having enough money, then putting up with a worse work-life balance may be necessary to get out of financial trouble.
When I was young and unmarried and then married without children my co-workers would say what have you got to rush home to. I resented that. Children aren’t the only reason to rush home and enjoy life. Work life balance isn’t only for parents.
When, as in this case, the pay difference was very substantial (more than a 100% increase in pay) for a local position which rewards breadth, rather than narrowly focused depth, and the individual wants to buy a home in an upscale area of the country.
And the higher paying position is easier work–due to readily available prototypes–although requires more in office hours rather than remote work.
Plus, I just do not think that young professionals should work from home. It is too young to sacrifice face-to-face networking & relationship building.
Plus, I know the actual annual expected increases for both positions.
P.S. I worked out the expected pay differences for this example. If the professional worked 4.5 years at the broad based skills position, the pay would equal 12 years at the very narrow highly specialized position (but at this time partnership is a real possibility). And both positions pay well for a professional. The lower paying position offers an above chance of becoming a partner, while the chance of becoming a partner in biglaw is slim–althouh non-equity partnerships offer a higher chance.
@ucbalumnus: Not sure whether you are a student, a young professional, or older. But there are more financial concerns in life than just student debt–even for single folks. Planning ahead is important.
With marriage & kids comes purchase of a house, school tuitions, and greatly increased living expenses. Earn money now to be able to provide down the road & to have the luxury of opting to take a position for work life balance.
Saving for retirement.
Young, single, healthy, well educated professionals should work & earn professional credentials & get the best work relationships & experience possible. Your priorities may differ.
Excellent health & strong economies don’t last forever. And life in not static. Ambition is important to some, but not to all. That is fine. Each has it rewards & pitfalls.
That is why I wrote “on track for both short and long term financial goals” in reply #42.
Without context as to how much value the marginal dollars make to the person’s life (including for short and long term financial goals), your prior comment was not very convincing as a general statement, as opposed to a reflection of what you personally value. Also, your relative may have been already at a relatively high income level even in the lower paying job.
The most extreme examples going the other way are the FIRE-types who retire relatively young ($0 labor income, although their savings now produce sufficient investment income for their needs and wants). Although many of them had high income careers, they may not necessarily have been as high income as biglaw partners and such.
Regardless, I thought & still think that my statement was fine. Others are free to agree, disagree, or ignore it, but there really is no need to share details which are common values & common goals in life.
You did write that you got upset because your relative apparently had different values and goals from what you thought s/he should have on this matter, correct? What you think are common values and goals may not be universal.
This is getting ridiculous. I do not want to debate. I never asserted that common values and goals are universal.
Let’s just stop this silliness now as it is too far off topic.
Really surprised with these abstract debates in the middle of Covid-19 pandemic.
I worked through the Y2K and 9/11 bust when my salary was repeatedly cut and through the 2008 crisis when I lost my job because I worked for the investment bank that crashed first. These are not regular times, many people will be lucky to have and keep their job. I expect that bonuses and even salaries will be cut. Not the best time to negotiate starting salaries. I would try to evaluate the stability and profitability of the old and new employers during the next few years.
I disagree with the idea that because it is hard time one should just take whatever bone thrown their way. Sure the employer has all the right to take advance of the situation, some are justified, some are not. But we don’t know what is legitimate and what is taking advantage, that’s why the employee should negotiate/ask for more if they feel the offer is less than what they expected. Nothing wrong with asking.
Make no mistake about it, some companies are taking advantage of the situation to either cut the salaries or lay off people. My sister’s company decided to reduce 20% of the salaries for managers, 30% for director levels, 40% for VP, and no bonus this year across the board. She said the numbers look great for the quarter and sell is going up for the next quarter . Everyone is working harder than ever and everyone is shocked with the cut. The company maybe right, or they may just be greedy. I think it’s BS. Some CEO and board of directors decided to preemptively squeeze the employees, because it’s a crisis and everyone should just feel lucky to still have a job, right?
OP @kiddie wrote: “…she will ask if there is any flexibility on the salary based upon her current compensation…”
Certainly a reasonable approach. But what if employer responds “Why should we meet her current salary ?”
In this instance, it might be helpful to have a list of reasonable necessar expenses on hand if it will support her request.
The answer to “why should we meet her current salary” should be “so she will accept this offer and come work for us”
Agree that that is a desired outcome for your daughter. But the company has made an offer. Better to be prepared to justify asking for more money than to let the other side control the “negotiations”.
As I wrote earlier, wise to consider–before a request for more money is made-- if your daughter is willing to walk away if no increase is offered.
P.S. “so she will accept this offer and come to work for us” Did the employer ever ask “What will it take to get you to come work for / with us ?” ?
In short, my advice is to enter into salary negotiations well prepared. Be willing to give in order to get.
Yep.
OR “because I would be a great asset to your organization. I have the skills and experiences, and I am an incredibly hard worker. And I have the drive to help your organization to achieve its goal and objective”
In other (unsaid) words, because I am worth every penny you pay me!
p.s @Publisher We get your point, but the OP already decided what her daughter is going to do. And what you considered as wise advice, to many it’s cringe worthy (list your expenses). But we hear you and maybe in some unique circumstances, people can use your suggestion.
I respectfully disagree with the above advice. Statements such as that suggested above usually should be backed up by a proven track record of success & accomplishments.
Of course, only OP knows the exact circumstances of the situation.
My impression is that OP’s daughter is unhappy at her current place of employment causing OP’s daughter to apply for a position at another company.
Stated in another fashion:
OP suggests asking: “Can I have more money based on my current salary ?” This is a reasonable approach–especially if new company pursued the worker.
I am just suggesting that OP’s daughter should be prepared to back up any claims–both as to work results & need for additional salary.
Have you ever heard of an elevated speech? @Publisher ?
You don’t need evidence to back up your claim of who you are, because only YOU know who you are. And you need to tell/sell others your best qualities.
It’s not the same thing as saying “I invented the cure for COVID-19”. When you said something like that, you better have back up evidence.
This could be an interview question, why should we hire you? You better have an elevated speed prepared. How exactly you say it is different from one person to another, but the idea is the same.
To me, your suggestion seems like a deperate plea unsupported by actual results & accomplishments.
Again, too many unknowns. If OP’s daughter has several years of experience, then the plea suggested by another poster should not be used in my opinion.
If OP’s daughter has very little experience, then such a plea might work if that is the best that she can offer.
The “need” idea is too close to the concept of paying a man more because he “needs” it to support a wife and kids and suburban house. It shouldn’t be of any interest to the (modern) employer.
If she really needs the extra money, it’s more likely to indicate extravagant tastes, and that can’t go over well.
Sticking to “can you match my current salary?” makes more sense.