<p>Talking about dumping stuff on your neighbors property-
My parents neighbors dump their pool water out onto my folks yard. Apparently their hose “only goes that far”. There’s a big dead patch of lawn now in my parent’s backyard.</p>
<p>lkf725 - your comments about dealing with the ‘nasty’ kids is a great idea - and I completely agree with you. Kids do need to learn to respect certain barriers - here a NO trespassing sign would do it - good cause to call the police if needed.</p>
<p>Sure makes one wonder what their parents think of this - and the kids too - wonder if it will really be a deterent or ?make the kids more agressive regarding steping out of their own barrier zone.</p>
<p>jeepmom-
Just curious-- did you read the whole thread?? The way I read it, both neighbors tried to discuss the matter with her kindly and she refused to discuss it. This all came about before the discussion of a letter being written to address their feelings. Not sure I see that as being “ganged up on”.</p>
<p>Allmusic, I think the written rules are a good thing, and it works well when there is an association to enforce these things and you don’t have to tangle with a neighbor.</p>
<p>A key thing I’ve learned is that how it’s “managed” is essential. If several neighbors really didn’t want this fence they should have gotten together and offered to pay for it in full. No one wants different fencing on different parts of the property. If you and Don paid to upgrade your portions and the others she borders didn’t, it bring up her cost. It sounds like Connie would have had to negotiate with at least 3 neighbors.</p>
<p>Jym, I’m with Jeepmom here. Connie was under no obligation to discuss this with her neighbors. Telling your neighbor that workman can not step a foot on your property if not threatening is alienating and bullying. Kind of saying I’ll try to stop you any way I can although you’re within your rights. Just plain not nice. Let’s remember that Don started this by alerting NY and seemed to understand it was legal to do what she was doing. He didn’t come up with a comprehensive solution, just fanned the flames of neighborhood discord.</p>
<p>I’m starting to understand why Californians, most from other places, all have fences!</p>
<p>UC- I think the way that Connie has acted is “not nice”. I have trouble seeing that the response to her being “not nice” should be to be “nice” and facilitating of something they don’t support.</p>
<p>Addendum-
No, she wasn’t under any “obligation” to discuss it with her neighbors, but that , IMO is “not nice”.</p>
<p>Another thought-- If both Don and the OP were met with a “mind your own beezwax” response from Connie when they tried to talk to her, I don’t understand why they should be expected to automatically “turn the other cheek” and turn on the charm. There are lots of ways to try to problem-solve. But if they feel strongly that they do not want trucks or back-hoes or workmen who could trip and fall on their property, they have a right to advise Connie of such. It does not mean that they are ganging up or bullying. They are stating their opinion, and being clear with their rights, just as Connie has been with hers.</p>
<p>All I can say Jym is that it seems straight forward to me because Connie has every right to build the fence of her choice. The neighbors have no say and their support was not sought and not invited. There is no problem to solve from Connie’s perspective nor legally.</p>
<p>We also don’t know the history but I would guess that if they have regular block BBQ’s and all was friendly, this would have been handled differently. Connie knowing the stakes were removed so quickly makes me wonder if she watches NY’s kids because she perceives that they come on her property.</p>
<p>This is private property, not a commune.</p>
<p>JYM - yup - have read the whole darn thing - and when 3-4 folks approach - write a very negative letter to 1 other - I consider that ganging up - bullying. Much better way would have to been to approach the lady - find out the what’s/where’s/why’s - to consider the answers - and to be respectful. There are ways to accept nicely - there are ways to challange - there are ways to respectlyfully disagree and to move on. One does not have to like what is being done - but if done within the law/guidelines - one can learn to live with it.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that Connie will find a way to get this fence up without impinging on the OP’s property 
Connie’s right is to put up a fence - the neighbors - cuz there are no ordinaces or restrictions - have the right to behaive like adults and respect her right - be supportive of it - and accept it.
Until their rights are stomped on - they have no right to make this situation that much more difficult than it has to be.</p>
<p>I guess we will have to agree to see this situation differently. If the OP and Don feel it is a good idea to put their concerns in writing, they can do so without it being viewed as hostile or “bullying”. I agree that it should be diplomatic, and they might even want an attorney to look at it (though that may fuel the fire, in the long run). Why are those unruly neighbor kids not being addressed? As many have said, they are the root of this problem. Everyone has rights in this situation, everyone, and no ones are more valuable than others. </p>
<p>Talk amongst yourselves-- I am off to dinner (with my neighbors )</p>
<p>Yup, Jym. Same people with the spitting grandchildren. They also used to like to start fires in garbage cans in the backyard, and these were properties of about 4000 square feet total, including the house…in other words, we were close to each other! </p>
<p>I also think that once the OP and Don write their letter, whatever friendliness once existed amongst them and Connie will be gone for good. It isn’t that they should necessarily turn the other cheek, but I really believe that where people own their own property, as long as they are acting within the confines of the law, they can do whatever they want. In the last analysis, it doesn’t matter a whit how the OP and Don feel. Personally, I have always been cognizant of my neighbors, and tried to be courteous, respectful, etc., but the favor has not always been returned. I have found bigger properties allow somewhat more space and fewer such issues.</p>
<p>As I said, I have often hated what my neighbors have done, but I still don’t necessarily want a big brother association telling me whether or not I can paint my house a certain color or hang out my laundry (I don’t, but I’ve often thought about it).</p>
<p>I have to also chime in with the “it sounds like the neighbors are ganging up on her” side. The latter as described serves no purpose but to let her know how her neighbors feel about her–take that, lady!</p>
<p>In the end, it’s just a fence. It’s not the end of the world–but having a cow over an elderly lady putting up her fence because of continued harassment, that’s a little touch of bad will that the community doesn’t need.</p>
<p>To add, this thread lost me at the point where the OP reconsidered paying for the resurveying caused by her kids pulling up the stakes. It doesn’t matter whether they “thought” they were on their own property, by all accounts they weren’t. Paying for the resurvey is not a nice gesture, it’s an obligation.</p>
<p>Jym, Jerith aluminum is not cheaper than chain link. I just thought that if the neighbors were still willing to pay for the sides, then Connie’s “share” for the back would probably be no more than what she now expects to pay - and maybe a bit less. The benefit of it compared to wood fencing is that it won’t interfere with anyone’s view (and it’s supposed to last longer plus need no maintenance.) If they chose a style with the pointed tops (they sort of look like spears) and didn’t add an extra horizontal bar then it would also be much more difficult to climb over than chain link. I’m afraid that this poor lady will find that a 4’ chain link fence will not discourage children or teens bent on coming onto her property unless she plants thorny holly or yucca along the fence, too.</p>
<p>Please do NOT join with neighbors in writing that letter! There is absolutely no way that this letter can be viewed as anything but hostile and bullying. You have already stated your perferences, she has different preferences - and it’s her property! As long as she follows all rules and regulations regarding the installation of her fence, she is within her rights.</p>
<p>Beyond not writing the letter, please just pay whatever expenses are associated with your children’s removal of the stakes, don’t make life difficult for the installation crew and make some attempt to reconcile with this woman. Such actions will be a positive influence on your children.</p>
<p>Wait a minute…</p>
<p>Regarding the letter, if I am not mistaken, it is only Don and NYmom who are writing the letter…and it is only Don who doesn’t want workers on his land. It’s not 3 or 4 neighbors ganging up on this little old lady. This is like one of those gossip parables…the more people the story passes through, the more it changes and becomes exaggerated. You all have now rewritten the story so that this is a whole neighborhood of mean people vs. one poor little old lady. That isn’t what has happened here at all. Two people most directly affected have attempted to open a dialogue with their neighbor. This neighbor has refused to discuss her course of action citing her right to protect her own property. So be it. She has set the tone of ‘each man for himself’, so she has no right to expect any further consideration from those she has alienated. She doesn’t want anyone stepping on her property without permission, so she should be well prepared to respect the property of others in the same way.</p>
<p>And I wouldn’t want workers on my property for any reason unless they were there at my request and I had inspected their insurance certificate. (Strictly for liability reasons.)</p>
<p>Regarding survey stakes. If there was no notification of anyone regarding the stakes, and no signs regarding the purpose of the stakes, then it is unreasonable to expect that they would not possibly be disturbed.</p>
<p>Also, Connie just seems to be a difficult person. First she says she wants a fence for security and it has to be chainlink so she can see through it. But she only wants a 4’ fence which provides no security and she says she wants to plant hollies to deter kids from scaling the fence… and there goes the view. </p>
<p>4’ chainlink fences won’t keep a big dog contained, much less rambunctious kids. I agree with the previous poster who said you have to get to the source of the problem…the unruly kids. If they are disrespectful of her property, they are going to be disrespectful of her fence. In fact, they’ll probably get a big kick out of climbing all over it. Connie needs a 7’ wood privacy fence if her goal truly is to repel those kids. And she needs to have the bad side facing her, so they don’t use the framing to climb it.</p>
<p>I predict more angst and more complaints as those kids proceed to tear up her new chainlink fence. Oh brother.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t sign the letter either, if for no other reason than written communications always come back to haunt you. </p>
<p>If Connie ever ends up having to “state her case” to authorities, and she tells the story of her neighbor’s kid pulling up stakes and then the neighbor refusing to do anything to correct the situation, then said neighbor writes a letter telling her she’s going to do everything within her power NOT to cooperate…</p>
<p>Well, guess who looks like the big pain in the a$$ now?</p>
<p>Every story has two sides, and Connie’s story will paint Connie in the best light possible, her <em>mean</em> neighbors in the worst. The letter is just going to be more fuel for her fire. That letter has given Connie some major ammunition if this ever goes anywhere.</p>
<p>I am not an attorney, but if the neighbors indicate in writing that they do not want their property used by workers, and do not want any of the necessities associated with the fence (rolls of fencing, cement piling, what have you) on their property, then I believe they have protected themselves and their rights. If a worker gets injured on their property (which can happen) and they indicated in advance that they were not giving permission to use their property, then I think they would be released from liability. Any attorneys out there?</p>
<p>Jym, that’s true, especially if that’s all the letter says. But if the letter goes on to complain about the fence, just from a <em>goodwill</em> standpoint, it makes the neighbor look worse than the person putting in the fence. Legally, you can say anything you want, of course.</p>
<p>Isn’t there some kind of easement?</p>
<p>People around here are ALWAYS having to get in between properties to put in pools, additions, etc. I’ve never heard of anyone writing a letter up front to ward off potential problems before the fact. I HAVE heard of people complaining once the work has begun that trucks are running over lawn, trash is ending up on property, etc.</p>
<p>dp - I see what you are saying…but I’m looking at it from another angle.</p>
<p>If a worker is injured on the OP’s property (chops a finger off with a Skilsaw for example), is the OP (and Connie) at risk if the contractor is uninsured? And how would the OP go about satisfying herself that the contractor has adequate insurance if they were not hired by her and not obligated to speak with her? The OP should be able to know that ANY contractor on her property carries adequate insurance…this is HER right.</p>
<p>A letter can be written in a straightforward, professional, nonthreatening way notifying Connie that workers are not permitted on neighbors’ property for liability reasons, unless the contractor is willing to provide the neighbors proof of insurance. No part of the structure should be placed outside Connie’s property anyway, so it may not be necessary to mention this part except for the purpose of giving Connie a head’s up to make sure the contractor creates no encroachments…for everyone’s sake.</p>
<p>Anyone who would get their knickers in a knot over receiving such a letter isn’t living in the real world.</p>
<p>dp - good point about easements. Here, the back of a property has a 10 foot utility easement and between homes, each property has a 5’ utility easement. Anything place in the easement can be removed by the utility without notice or consequence, so…build in the easement at your own risk. (Fencing contractors don’t often tell people this.) If Connie were smart, she’d build that infernal fence on her side of the utility easement rather than IN the utility easement on the property line.</p>