<p>It seems that us with rational and logical minds have to keep repeating and repeating ourselves over and over again in a vain attempt to try and disuade you of your delusionment. That is probably why, us atheists, sound trite.</p>
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<p>It’s very sad that girl believes what she does about Mexicans, but that isn’t a religious opinion, it’s a political one. I hope that as you get older you’ll meet people of faith whom you can respect. When I was your age I was an atheist, and never gave God a moment’s thought. I wonder why you are so exercised about this subject? I understand that the climate in the US at the moment has led to an unfortunate marriage of a certain brand of religion and politics. And you have every right to be upset about that, as many of us are. But please don’t confuse that situation with the sincere religious faith of many.</p>
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<p>Isn’t your primary criticism of Christianity that it is evangelical, and a main tenet of your belief-set that you DON’T try to convert others to your philosophy?</p>
<p>Although it is a political opinion, she believed that it was supported by the “children of ham” in that she has ligther skin than Mexicans. I have met a few people with faith whom I respect. My gramdma (sorry for the childish allusion) for instance is not imposing, she is not discriminatory, she doesn’t supress my affinity for science, and she appreciates my views. These types of religious people I don’t mind, but the only issue is that moderate beliefs pave the way for fanaticals. Fanaticals that fly planes into buildings, invade othe countries due to a religious superiority complexity disorder (among many peverse reasons), blow up abortion clinics, etc.</p>
<p>Because of religion the death penalty is still legal and stem cell research has been stunted.</p>
<p>If believing in flying pigs didn’t impose upon anyone or disrupt the harmony of peace and equality and the pursuit of knowledge, than I wouldn’t be so adamantly opposed.</p>
<p>“a main tenet of your belief-set that you DON’T try to convert others to your philosophy?”</p>
<p>Where is this? In our bible?</p>
<p>Read my and othter’s previous posts before jumping into the conversation.</p>
<p>Oh, and the main tenet of atheits’ belief is truth.</p>
<p>I am not trying to convert you I am merely pointing out the illogic in some of your beliefs.</p>
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<p>How, exactly?</p>
<p>it is hard to not connect the two, as those that do not like the marriage of state and church who are religious let it slide…on a grand scale</p>
<p>where are the vocal religious people saying, no, we should not decide law on the bible, where are the vocal religious people who say, it is more important to do God’s work- help the poor, keep the world clean and safe, than to make money (which is a MAJOR part of many mega churches “creed”)- that wealth comes with faith, and not wealth of the heart, but wealth in the bank</p>
<p>and when people of faith do speak up that the war is wrong, or that we as a people aren’t doing enough to help those in need, or we aren’t doing enough as a nation to help the environmnt, they are told to be quiet?</p>
<p>yes, this is true…and when you have major religions focusing on one or two social issues- abortion and gay marriage- while often ignoring the major social issues (homeless, sick, etc (yes, some religious groups have been beacons of hope in those areas- the Catholic Church has ALWAYS had it work to help the down trodden) but more often we see the idea being brought forth of “born again” or “evangelical” which in essence are very self centered concepts- a “me” kind of focus on religion- worrying more about the afterlife than quality of life for those here now</p>
<p>I would guess that the poster is so exercised about this subject because religion often reeks of hypocracy and superiority to those that don’t have “the faith”…this kind of atitude that is so prevelant in American society, from the President on down that their path is the only one, and others, well, they are going to hell because that is the doctrine, and the idea that when things are going wrong in your life, it is becuase you didn’t have enough faith, that suffering is virtuous, and if you jsut say, well, I have been reborn, so I am all better, what I did is irrelevant because NOW I have faith and God has shown me his mercy…says who?</p>
<p>when you see $$$$$ going to “faith” based causes, who feel free to use government money to prosteletize while aiding the poor</p>
<p>when you see leaders using God to justify decisions</p>
<p>when you see wars fought and people dying because of religion, and this
faith of the afterlife, while having total disgregard for the living</p>
<p>when you see people twisting history ie the under GOd in the pledge, or in God We Trust, to promote an agenda</p>
<p>when you see people picking and choosing quotes to try and prove we are a “Christian” nation to justify laws, discrimination, etc</p>
<p>when you see that, it is the RESPONSIBITLITY of people to say, hey wait a second</p>
<p>and it is truely interesting that those of faith wonder why others even wonder about that faith and try to show that there are those that don’t “Believe” or need to</p>
<p>I have been reading some really interesting books lately, after having read lots of books about different faiths, so I “get it”…and as I have read many books about religion, taken religious classes, etc, I would put it out there that those who have such faith, read the “other side” the Dawkins book, the Moral Minority, etc…for some there faith is stronger, for others, well, it makes you think</p>
<p>as you can see, many atheists are very educated when it comes to religion, but many religious people don’t want to even read different views</p>
<p>nor do they wish to see things in context of the times</p>
<p>when you see medical decisions and health care being made because of religious beliefs, and those practice being used on people of different faiths, ie birth control</p>
<p>I have asked this question often on this site, but have yet to get a response:</p>
<p>when I ask about the Bible, that is often referred to as the word of God, how do we know? Because men told us so? And when the Bible was put together, do you totally trust the men that did that to have done so with the best intentions? that politics, ego, power never had anything to do with what billions have been told for eons? as for mercy, isn’t it only if you have done wrong? that if you apolgize to God you are forgiven? is that enough, to apologize to something you believe in? what about the people that have been hurt?</p>
<p>as for tenant of belief for atheists…um…what? </p>
<p>my mother=in=law was taught for YEARS that homosexuals were bad, were sick, were going to )*%# etc, by her church</p>
<p>one night, she was 70, she said you know, I think gays were born that way, and they are what they are. Nothing wrong with them. But her RELIGION taought her to hate, fear, etc. Because that is what it said in the Bible…well, gee, I hugged her that night…it was like an ephinany for her…she still has her faith, BUT she now questions, which is how it should be</p>
<p>I challenge those who are brave enough to read more about the Founding Fathers and their “religion” , etc…I have seen first hand the twisting of truth to suit the needs of those that want a relgious government and nation…and if people don’t question and get others to look at the truth, then we wil turn into exactly what the founders wanted to avoid</p>
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<p>There are plenty. Most of these are the priests, ministers, rabbis, etc. who are preaching to their own flocks, and whose churches and synagogues are serving the poor in their communities without fanfare, every day. Then there are more famous people like Rick Warren, an evangelical Christian who has done an enormous amount of work on the AIDS crisis in Africa. In fact it has been evangelicals in recent years who have been at the forefront of humanitarian movements such as fighting the sexual trafficking of women. Another vocal person has been Jim Wallis, author of God’s Politics.</p>
<p>(And incidentally, the Bible has more verses about helping the poor and oppressed than just about any other subject.)</p>
<p>Religion teaches its constituents not to question. Also, if you announce that you are a christian, a muslim, a Jew, then we are supposed to respect it without so much as a raised hand; that is still true even if it escalates into cataclysmic events. The bible condones acts and when religous sects implore its consituents, whom don’t question, to follow it’s demands; they do so. The fanatics that flew the planes into the towers were moderates at one stage. </p>
<p>I will give you a few examples of my expriences with military commanders over the last eleven years:</p>
<p>Often on base the commanders will raise the military alert to threat level red or orange in order to inspire fear within their men. They exploit this fear to their advantage to meglomaniacally maintain control over their troops and coerce them into doing things that they wouldn’t “usually” do. Religious leaders inspire the same fear. If a respected and revered priest in a community warns moderates of impending doom because homosexuals are among them; moderates would be compelled by their fear of god’s “wrath” and hell to locate and purge themselves of such “infidels”</p>
<p>Another commander’s ploy, which Bush often toys with, is patronizing his troops. If they don’t want to follow his orders then they are disloyal to their country and they are of equal to terrorist vermin. The commander will again expolit and manipulate their allegiance and sense of national pride in an effort to get them to do something they wouldn’t usually do. Religion does the same with consitutents’ loyalty to their particular religion.</p>
<p>Ultimately, Professor Dawkins I believe devoted an entire chapter to the issue of moderation and fundamentalism; you should read it as he is evidently more intellectually mature and eloquent then me.</p>
<p>“Then there are more famous people like Rick Warren, an evangelical Christian who has done an enormous amount of work on the AIDS crisis in Africa.”</p>
<p>Yet the Pope insists that all those children who die unbaptized will perish in hell.</p>
<p>“In fact it has been evangelicals in recent years who have been at the forefront of humanitarian movements such as fighting the sexual trafficking of women. Another vocal person has been Jim Wallis, author of God’s Politics.”</p>
<p>Have you ever wondered though if they simply do it because they are trying to create a more appealing face for christianity? They may not actually believe in their cause or even want to help, they may just do it to appeal to the sympathy of others ergo increasing their religious base.</p>
<p>isn’t it interesting that the bible, and I am assuming tyou are referring to the New Testement, yes, it does talk about the poor, etc, but that doens’t seem to carry into current practice for many faiths here in america, sad to say</p>
<p>and there is a VP of a major relgious group in this country who tried to put out there that his faith should spend more time discussing the envirnoment- God’s planet, the poor etc, and he was bascially told to shut up because the leaders wanted to soley focus on abortion and gay marriage, the poor could wait</p>
<p>yepp, nice Christians those, so he is now speaking out because he was shocked and disappointed</p>
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<p>Actually I was also thinking about the Old Testament. Read Isaiah, for a start. He’s constantly chastizing the Israelites for paying more attention to their formal observances than to helping the poor, and makes it very clear that God is unhappy about that. (See chapter 58, in particular).</p>
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<p>Yes, there are those who disagree, but there are plenty of Christians who are speaking out about these things.</p>
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<p>I’m not Catholic, but I don’t believe that’s current Catholic doctrine. Let’s check:</p>
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<p>“(And incidentally, the Bible has more verses about helping the poor and oppressed than just about any other subject.)”</p>
<p>Again, you are picking and choosing which parts of the bible to believe in. If it was written by god you can’t say “well I like this part, but that’s a little too shabby so we will have to do away with it”.</p>
<p>(What about Aaron (Exodus 32:1); what about the Midianites (Numbers 31: 18); what about Leviticus 20; what about (Exodus 34:13-17); what about the Levite priest (Judges 19:23-24)?)</p>
<p>“current Catholic doctrine”</p>
<p>Oh, so god’s words and intent can change depending upon which pope has been elected?..even though god is omnipotent and omniscient.</p>
<p>am not threatened by athiests in the least. But as a person of faith I do feel threatened by anyone who tries to impose their belief on someone else either personally or via the state. The Qur’an states the there shall be no compuction regarding religion and the New Testament states to render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s. If that were really the case it would be a far better world we live in.</p>
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<p><em>sigh</em> Once again, I’m not an inerrantist. Nor am I a Catholic, so I can’t speak to the changing doctrine of that church. You seem to want to lump all Christians together into a monolithic fundamentalist group, when they’re simply not like that.</p>
<p>All your Christian religions can’t be right. If say the existence of one god is plausible, then only one religion can exist to worship that god. There are too many discrepencies with all the sectarian religions for more than one to worship the same god. So, are you asserting that your Christian religion is right and all the others are wrong?</p>
<p>Each of us has some things right and some things wrong.</p>