<p>That could be, but I would have a hard time understanding that view. I seem to have been born with a missing pre-disposition gene.</p>
<p>This is what I know of hell:</p>
<p>Many go there – Matthew 7:13 “… wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.”</p>
<p>A place of torment – Luke 16:19-31 [probably the most vivid account] “The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades … he cried and said ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’” (Luke 16:23-24. Look up the other verses of this story told by Jesus in the Bible.)</p>
<p>Everlasting punishment – Matthew 25:46 “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”</p>
<p>Everlasting fire – Matthew 25:41 “And then He will say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’”</p>
<p>Furnace of fire – Matthew 13:41, 50 “The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practise lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matt 13:41)</p>
<p>“The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matt 13:49-50)</p>
<p>Lake of fire – Revelation 20:15 And anyone not found in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.</p>
<p>Fire and brimstone – Revelation 14:10 If anyone worships the beast … he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.</p>
<p>Unquenchable fire – Matthew 3:12 “His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”</p>
<p>Devouring fire – Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid;
Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:
“Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?”</p>
<p>Prepared for the devil – Matthew 25:41 “And then He will say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’”</p>
<p>Devils are confined there until the judgment day – 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment …</p>
<p>And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day.</p>
<p>Punishment there is eternal – Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid;
Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:
“Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?”</p>
<p>Human power cannot prevent us going there – Ezekiel 32:27 … who have gone down to hell
with their weapons of war.</p>
<p>Body suffers there – Matthew 5:29, 10:28 “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.” (Matt 5:29)</p>
<p>“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him Who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matt 10:28)</p>
<p>Soul suffers there – Matthew 10:28</p>
<p>If god is benevolent how could it endorse such a place. Also if god is all-good then god cannot do bad things, so god is not all powerful.</p>
<p>“Obviously it’s about belief since the question can’t be proven.”</p>
<p>Not yet, but that doesn’t mean perpetually undertermined. Even Einstein believed that an answer could be eventually reached and was working on his theory of everything on his deathbed. Again, just because god can’t be disproved at this point does not betoken that the existence of god lies on the same footing as God’s non-existence.</p>
<p>“My point is that you’re drawing a conclusion from your belief just as religious people do. You assert that your belief is more correct than their belief. They assert that their belief is more correct than yours. Who’s really correct? Neither position really knows.”</p>
<p>Yes, I am drawing a conclusion based on logic and science. They are just believing. Again, I do admit that I am possibly wrong they, however, do not. They have to be right. That is the distinct difference.</p>
<p>edad:</p>
<p>It’s actually a theory by some scientists based on clinical evidence more than a view. Regardless of one’s beliefs, it sure is interesting data.</p>
<p>" A thinking, questioning person must sooner or later make a choice. It is really difficult to maintain the position that we cannot know or it makes no difference. The easiest choice is to at least believe in the existence of God and then try to determine the meaning and consequences"</p>
<p>I like how Professor Dawkings’ describes it: “The Poverty of Agnosticism”.</p>
<p>I’m not a fan of Pascal’s wager either. I’ve always felt that if I lived a good and ethical life any god worth worshipping would forgive me for not believing in him (or her or it.)</p>
<p>“It’s actually a theory by some scientists based on clinical evidence more than a view.”</p>
<p>It does sound interesting, but I wonder how they acquire their test subjects (said in jest).</p>
<p>A pre-disposition to religious belief does seem highly likely for many individuals. I view this as being a part of man’s genetic makeup with an evolutionary advantage.</p>
<p>It doesn’t appear to be universal, at least I have a hard time detecting that pre-disposition within myself.</p>
<p>qwilde, the verses you cite touch on the bare truth of hell (although the bible is not known for literal meanings). they do not answer why God made a hell, and obviously, informed christians are ready with one. at the end you pose a philosophical question that is not answered in just a few sentences, and which your answer is readily refuted. you have not heard what other theologians and philosophers have had to say (or so it seems). </p>
<p>i urge you to read cs lewis’ say on christianity!</p>
<p>“at the end you pose a philosophical question that is not answered in just a few sentences, and which your answer is refuted.”</p>
<p>The retort I have been typically confronted with is that God is all good, but chooses not to do evil things. Well if god is all good, god cannot choose to do evil things can it?</p>
<p>“you have not heard what other theologians and philosophers have had to say (or so it seems).”</p>
<p>Again, you are assuming. If you raise their specific points I can address them. Just to say “you haven’t heard other’s points” is ambigious and a refuge if there ever was one.</p>
<p>What C.S. Lewis book are you referring to?</p>
<p>i’m not asking you to address them. i’m just asking, or rather, suggesting/advising that you know them.</p>
<p>there are a lot of CS Lewis books dealing with christianity, but his most general book dealing with it is called “Mere Christianity.” CS Lewis is just one of many people who seek to explain Christianity but i’m not that read up due to time constraints (i’m a senior in high school) and my only recent interest in the debate between atheism and theism. however, i’m not here to debate.</p>
<p>I have only seen the show twice, but I am quite sure those are the lost numbers: 4815162342. Aren’t they?</p>
<p>I prefer 123581321345589, but only because I like nature.</p>
<p>hahaha, you’re right about the lost numbers. my favorite show as of now.</p>
<p>Well I have read the Silver Chair, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, and the Prince Caspain, but they are childish fables with subliminal messages. </p>
<p>“i’m just asking, or rather, suggesting/advising that you know them”</p>
<p>If you don’t raise the points in question then I can’t tell you if I know them or not.</p>
<p>“(i’m a senior in high school)”</p>
<p>I know how that is…sort of.</p>
<p>“my favorite show as of now.”</p>
<p>My favorite show is House. That’s just our difference of opinion though :).</p>
<p>“the bible is not known for literal meanings” </p>
<p>really? some sects absolutely believe the bible as literal, even to the age of the earth, and because of that, the park service is dealing with some Christian groups who want the literature to say the earth is 10,000 years old</p>
<p>so to think peoples faith is not important to at least discuss IF they take that faith into the public arena is naive</p>
<p>the chronicles of narnia are simply what they are: children’s books. they are not books on philosophy and theology.</p>
<p>"really? some sects absolutely believe the bible as literal, even to the age of the earth, and because of that, the park service is dealing with some Christian groups who want the literature to say the earth is 10,000 years old</p>
<p>so to think peoples faith is not important to at least discuss IF they take that faith into the public arena is naive"</p>
<p>Yes, CGM is right (this just seems to be a knack of yours). If you search through the threads you will notice that I posted links to statistics indicating that 63% of Americans take the bible literally.</p>
<p>“10,000 years old”</p>
<p>Sorry, to be pedantic, but I think it’s 6,000 (I could be wrong though).</p>
<p>If you really want a laugh I suggest you visit this site:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.answersingenesis.org/Docs/2.asp[/url]”>http://www.answersingenesis.org/Docs/2.asp</a></p>
<p>That is what I mean by the subersion of science and blind faith i.e. nonthinking.</p>
<p>oh, well then. this just goes to show how many christians are ill-informed and lacking common sense. at least 37% of us are on the right track. and if you are to say that i am naive about this issue, go and read the bible and see how much of it makes sense if you take all things literally. even generally, life itself cannot be taken too literally.</p>