<p>“First, god is not MY god, god is everybody’s god.”</p>
<p>So you believe in the Olympians?</p>
<p>“Second, very impressive littany you posted of atrocities committed in the name of religion. What? Isn’t there more?! Oh well, there will be, rest assured that where ever man puts his hand there will be unspeakable misdeeds – even in such worthwhile causes as religion! How could you think otherwise? Are you that much of an idealist? And, those ideals are placed where? – in man?! – please!!! – just too amusing.”</p>
<p>I forget the sanctity of life isn’t important to Christians like you. Again, silly me.</p>
<p>“READ MY LIPS: God does not attain credibility through man, rather, man gains it through god.”</p>
<p>Again, how convenient. God, being all powerful and omniscient, created man’s virtues; man’s virtues that propagated and allowed such atrocities. God foresaw man’s atrocities, but decided to create the race anyway. But to be fair, god is not responsible.</p>
<p>““READ MY LIPS: God does not attain credibility through man, rather, man gains it through god.””</p>
<p>So how does this statement reconcile with the Bible being the word of God,though it was written solely by men? </p>
<p>I guess what makes attrocities done in the name of religion so horrid is that people use God to justify killing others, that somehow invoking the bible, the koran, or whatever to explain away terrible acts, is the height of hypocracy, lying, and cruelty. To claim that one God is better than another in order to get power and land. Sure humans have killed for the sake of killing, but when the Bible is used to make it okay, well…</p>
<p>Organized religion is responsible for the slaughter of so many, while at the same time claiming a path to God and Heaven. I would rather an atheistbad guy, than a hypocritcal “religious” bad guy any day.</p>
<p>As well, to me, when people ONLY do right because it gives them a way into heaven, to me that is the ultimate selfishness…doing right because it is right is very different from doing right because you will be rewarded when you die</p>
<p>Oh, I don’t know, I think I’d prefer a Christian terrorist who shot at docs and bombed abortion clinics to an atheist terrorist who, who, who…exactly what did he do, now? ;)</p>
<p>"Oh, I don’t know, I think I’d prefer a Christian terrorist who shot at docs and bombed abortion clinics to an atheist terrorist who, who, who…exactly what did he do, now? "</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Cartoons:</p>
<p>“In news just to hand 15,000 rioting atheists have stromed a Newspaper after 12 blank sheets were found on a cartoonisit’s desk…”</p>
<p>"Priest: God is an atheist?</p>
<p>Atheist: Faith is “Belief” in things that aren’t based in fact. Since God knows everthing, he can’t have faith. And, because he’s already the highest power he doesn’t believe in a higher power. And so, God is an atheist!</p>
<p>“As well, to me, when people ONLY do right because it gives them a way into heaven, to me that is the ultimate selfishness…doing right because it is right is very different from doing right because you will be rewarded when you die”</p>
<p>Exactly, atheists aren’t expecting to be rewarded for their good deeds. They don’t believe that some fairy in the sky is tallying their acts of altruism in order to determine whether they are permitted to enter the gates of heaven. They do it because they are intrinsically good.</p>
<p>This is a caricature of Christianity. Christians are called to love and serve others because of the grace of God which has transformed their lives, not in order to ‘earn’ heaven. Many terrible deeds have been done in the name of Christ, and that is a great tragedy. But please don’t assume that all Christians are like Fred Phelps, or that a certain type of American conservative evangelical doctrine represents all of Christian thought. If you’re interested in what Christianity is really about, I’d suggest N.T. Wright’s Simply Christian. He’s perhaps the greatest theologian we have today.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone does (or at least certainly I don’t, and I’m not an atheist), so let’s not set up straw men. But there IS a difference. It is hard to imagine atheists appealing to their “atheist non-deity” to justify their terrible deeds; it’s not hard to imagine Christians doing so (because they have, and on a regular basis.)</p>
<p>As I’ve noted, there are Christian theologians who believe (or at least argue) that “God has withdrawn from the world”, so that appealing to God for support of either good or evil deeds would be a worthless exercise.</p>
<p>Well first, none of us is worthy of God’s grace…that’s the whole point. As for hell, there are many different doctrines concerning what it might be like and who will be there (if anyone). Which particular one did you have in mind?</p>
<p>“because of the grace of God which has transformed their lives”</p>
<p>If they are not worthy of its grace how has it changed their lives?</p>
<p>“As for hell, there are many different doctrines concerning what it might be like and who will be there (if anyone)”</p>
<p>I am talking about all the circles. Anyway, hell could not be as it is described (though it doesn’t even exist so I don’t know why I am debating this…unless you actually believe it is under Jerusalem) because a person couldn’t withstand perpetual pain without developing a tolerance. The victim would just become numb to the torment.</p>
<p>If god is omnipotent and omnipresent and created man, then god is responsible for man’s atrocities. Humanity should not be punished for them. Unless, of course, God is playing some sadomasochistic and megalomaniacal joke.</p>
<p>“Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man – living in the sky – who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do…And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! …But He loves you…”</p>
<p>If God gave up his only son for us, why are we supposed to be so grateful? Mom’s have given up their sons for years to war. Does the giving up of a child, and God only gave up one, is that a sign of diety? I never understood, seriouslly, the big deal of God losing Jesus, his only begotten Son. Do you think Jesus thought he was more worthy than anyone else? Not according to his own teachings. It is MAN who deified Jesus. Man’s words.</p>
<p>Again, to those that read the scared tomes, as these are all words of man, why are they called the Words of the Lord…when man wrote them, etc</p>
<p>I still have not really gotten a good explanation of that dichotomy…word of God edited, written, translated, etc by man, who ALL had personal agendas</p>
<p>Heck, a political leader changed Christianity to suit his own purposes, which had to do with power and control, yet, the Bible is seen as the be all end all of authority, why is that? Please explain to me why so many Gospels that didn’t agree with Church leadership were tossed, why reincarnation was deleted?</p>
<p>People that believe the Bible is the word of God- I ask, how in the world do you know that, besides blind faith</p>
<p>“Heck, a political leader changed Christianity to suit his own purposes, which had to do with power and control, yet, the Bible is seen as the be all end all of authority, why is that?”</p>
<p>To make matters worse, they wern’t even original. If the writers were students today, they would be suspended from school for plagiarism. Most fables were adopted from other religions, even some from pagan religions.</p>
<p>Through faith, we can receive God’s love and mercy. Being so loved, that in turn prompts us to show love and mercy towards others. Alas, we don’t always do so. (And note, I’m not saying that atheists can’t show love and mercy - they certainly can.)</p>
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<p>I wasn’t - that’s a construct of Dante’s. I was referring to various doctrines of hell such as the absence of God (as opposed to eternal torment) or alternatively annihilationism or universalism. If you truly want to discuss Christianity, it might be of some help for you to know more about the faith than the one-dimensional view you seem to have.</p>
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<p>Well he was also God, so I think that would make it more of a suicide, actually. ;)</p>
<p>“Well he was also God, so I think that would make it more of a suicide, actually.”</p>
<p>Apparently, you missed the fallacy of the trinity earlier.</p>
<p>“If you truly want to discuss Christianity, it might be of some help for you to know more about the faith than the one-dimensional view you seem to have.”</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I grew up in a Catholic household. I read the bible repeatedly, not to mention Aquinas and all your other “respectable” theologians. I was also subject to christianity at school- I’m English.</p>
<p>“Through faith, we can receive God’s love and mercy.” </p>
<p>So, because Hitler and most of his men believed in God-“Gott mit uns”- they are worthy of its love and mercy. An atheist, however, who has been scrupulous, unselfish, and altruisitc througout his/her life will burn eternally in hell merely because they didn’t believe the psychobable preached in the bible? Some skewed view of ethics you have.</p>
<p>“various doctrines of hell such as the absence of God”</p>
<p>“Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man – living in the sky – who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do…And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! …But He loves you…”</p>