NESCAC / High Academic D3 T&F Possibilities

Athletic Recruits
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Hi - S 2027 is interested in T&F/XC at NESCAC/High Academic D3 and similar. Will be deciding based on academic/culture fit first but T&F is important to him and may be a way to help avoid the seeming crapshoot of general admissions.

Thought I would post here to get thoughts on that possibility given that there are some very knowledgeable folks in here that will give it straight.

His Sophomore year PRs were:

800: 1:58.49 // 400: 51.25 // XC5K 16:58 (had some good physical maturity between XC and TF last year so feels like the XC time should improve) He’s a hard worker but our school is pretty small and doesn’t have the most sophisticated program/coaches.

Academically, he has a 4.0 (97.8/100) and is 2nd in his class. Given our school size, rigor might work against him - we have pretty limited AP options he will have 4 at the end of JR year (WorldH, APUSH, Chem, Eng.Lang) hopefully AP Calc and Physics next year, if available.

He is full pay, if that matters.

Would love any thoughts before we start down the road! Thanks!

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My initial reaction based on the 400 speed is to not rule out Ivy and other D1 schools.

Any 1600/3200 times? Did he win the race where he ran 1:58?

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Time for your son to get busy building a college list and sending emails. He can also fill out recruiting questionnaires on each school’s athletic website, but should follow up with an email to the coaches as well. The list needs to be big at first as it will narrow through the course of the next year. Cast a wide net! My recruited athlete started with 35 schools, but we do know a few kids who started with over 100!

Just so you are aware, many high academic schools will want your son to apply ED to get help with admissions. Full pay may help at some schools.

Good luck to him! This needs to be an athlete driven process. You are there to support and guide, but he needs to be the one to reach out to coaches.

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Thanks! 1600 was a 4:30, hand timed, only ran once. The 1:58 was a win at Sectionals - got sick the next week and was 1:59 at State qualifying meet and didn’t advance. He really wants to hit 49.9X in the 400 and 1:54.9X in the 800 but those are big jumps. He’d love a shot at Cornell or Dartmouth but want to keep it realistic.

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Thank you - yes, it’s his race to run (how’s that pun :grin:). Appreciate the thoughts on process.

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Welcome. There is definitely lots of good threads on this site, and many people with good recruiting knowledge.

Offhand, your son probably needs to get faster to get recruiting interest, but probably will get faster, so that is ok at this point. Its still a little bit early for track/XC recruiting. Here are a few quick things to keep in mind:

There are usually recruiting forms that can be filled out on college team sites. Your son can fill these out, but should follow up with an email to coaches on the staff. The subject matter should be concise: 2027 recruit. 4.0 GPA. 51/1:58. (or something like that) Email the head coach, anyone listed as a distance/middle distance coach, and anyone listed as a recruiting coordinator. Include times, grades, scores (or planned dates). Emails need to come from your son, but you should proofread. End with a call to action: what do I need to do to be on your recruiting radar?

For the most part, coaches don’t care about XC times. They want track times and performance at state and regional meets. Coaches will assume XC PRs are on short/fast courses. A big year to year improvement at the same meet/course at this point might be worth mentioning, though.

Runcruit is often a decent place to look for fit, but can be off. Coaches interpret recruiting standards differently, even when they are published on the school site. Some coaches start returning calls when a recruit hits the standard, while some published standards are aspirational.

TFRRS has track times listed, and you can filter for team or conference. Look at the best times for the season, not conference meet results. Conference meet races are often very tactical. Also, the coach isn’t looking to recruit at the weaker times on the season in any given event. These are likely off events, athletes coming back from injury, etc.

Recruiting is a pretty efficient market in the sense that there is not likely to be any magic places where the times to get pull are much slower than the amount of pull the coach has relative to other schools. If a great school isn’t getting great recruits, its likely that the coach doesn’t have much pull, or the student athletes need to have very high standards. The trick is the find a place that your son wants to go to, where his times are good enough for the coach to want him, and his grades/scores are good enough for the coach to get him in.

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This is awesome - thank you!

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The 400 time jumped out at me, too. Especially for someone who runs cross country.

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My D26 has been through the recruiting process with a D3 SCIAC school for XC/TF and it has been a positive experience so far, the tips listed here are very helpful and accurate.

I would also say to note whether SAT/ACT scores are required for the schools you are targeting and if so, plan to take it sooner rather than later. We know a XC/TF athlete recruited for an Ivy, that needed to hit a certain SAT mark and they wished they had started that earlier, but it worked out in the end.

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Good advice from @LurkerJoe and @Momofthree24 above.

Obviously, recruiting is a journey and he’ll need to improve for some schools, etc.

But improvement is far more likely than not among boys that age. The 400 time shows really good speed for a 10th grade mid-d runner. The 4:30 (and the fact that he runs XC at all) tells me that he’s probably not just a 400 meter runner who can make it through 4 laps; those 400 types usually wilt more than that in a 1600 (though not always).

So, I think it’s reasonable to think that significant improvement in the 800 is a possibility (he likely had more in the tank this year if not for the illness). It’s not out of the question that after next season he’s in the 50ish, sub 1:54ish range.

That’s recruitable at most D3s and getting into the range where Ivies and other D1s might have interest. Cornell and Dartmouth recruit guys like that all the time although hitting those times doesn’t guarantee anything.

He can start contacting coaches now if he wants, as suggested. Junior year times are the key so don’t be discouraged if he doesn’t hear much back. He can keep trying as new times come in next year. It’s still on the early side for boys so if he doesn’t want to get into this yet he doesn’t have to. Casting a wide net and keeping an open mind about future PRs is always good.

Good luck and don’t hesitate to ask any questions here!

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I agree that your son is shaping up to be a strong NESCAC candidate and may get interest from the lower Ivies depending on how he progresses. Only thing to add is that if you’re in the Northeast, NESCAC/Ivy coaches are likely to be familiar with some of the XC courses he’s running, so while track times obviously are more of an apples-to-apples comparison, sometimes XC times can be illustrative.

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Thanks everyone - really appreciate all the thoughts - extremely helpful!

We did an unofficial walk through of Middlebury, Williams and Dartmouth while on vacation and it really got him excited about the process.

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People seem enamored with the 400 time, but I’m more locked into the 1:58-point as a Soph. That projects well, depending on how long he’s been at it.

Do you have indoor track where you live? A good 800 runner can get points in a lot of different events indoors from 600-3000, so coaches look closely at that. More importantly, that’s another season to race and improve, so your 1:54 could be conservative.

Does he consider himself an XC runner? As others have said, times don’t really matter, but meets do. If he’s able to show well at say a Foot Locker Qualifier, all of the regional coaches will be there (not sure where you’re from).

Did I miss the SAT scores?

It’s a big year and the recruiting process for track is pretty black box for NESCAC, UAA and Ivies. Send the notes out and update them as you PR through the season. Give serious consideration to summertime AAU and USATF racing as well. Gives you through July to post times Before senior year and right before the pre-read process begins in earnest.

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Sadly, Foot Locker Nationals has been cancelled. :disappointed_face:

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No way. That’s THE Meet.

Need to look into that. Maybe Brooks replaces it? I don’t know. We’re track people.

OP’s son needs to show out at a “name” meet in any case was my point. Whatever they are now.

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NXN is THE meet for XC these days. So an NXR meet is worth looking at.

(Also, on the 400 time: it’s not the 400 in isolation but that it’s a 10th grade mid distance kid doing it that stands out. There are a lot of 1:58 10th graders who run 53-54 second 400s and won’t get much faster. 51 low is already almost enough speed to be a competitive Ivy 800 or 1500 runner).

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Thanks! I’d say he thought he was XC/Distance until puberty kicked in late fall (better late than never I guess!). This spring was the first time he ran anything under a 1600.

Unfortunately, our HS doesn’t offer Indoor but several around us do - hoping to find a way to make that work.

Great thought on the summer stuff, will look into that for sure.

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Don’t disagree, but my eyes went to him running the 1:59 soon after while sick, so could be talking 1:57 or lower. Speaks to consistency. I don’t have a sense of whether his 51-point was a pop and he usually runs 53s.

Good sophomore times in any case that project well for sure. What I’ve seen is a big pop from sophomore to junior or an injury that kills momentum. Hoping for the first for OP.

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Regarding indoor, are there clubs you can run with? I assume there are indoor tracks wherein you can compete if other places in the area have indoor. Confirm?

If you can find a good club to run with it can have a material impact on your kids’ improvement.

And apologies. He hasn’t taken SATs as a tenth grader.

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Finally, and not to gum up the works here, but you may have a long sprinter in distance clothing.

Our local HS has a kid who ran distance til this year and made all state in the 400 and ran low 22 as a sophomore. Just sayin.