New Chronicle story about Duke's place in the academic pecking order:

Colleges & Universities Duke University
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<p>“Duke still step below top schools”</p>

<p><a href=“http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/09/04/News/Duke-Still.Step.Below.Top.Schools-2255803.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com[/url]”>http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/09/04/News/Duke-Still.Step.Below.Top.Schools-2255803.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I laughed when I read that article yesterday. Duke and comparable Ivies are considered less selective than HYPSM? Big shock, eh? :rolleyes: I know the author, but I’ll restrain from personal comments. :p</p>

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<p>Just gonna point out that the table in the article has a few errors in it…including Brown’s SAT scores, which are either 1530 or 1540 but no matter what much much higher than 1450.</p>

<p>Also know the author…besidse that one error on the table (btw you can barely see it online) it seems accurate and not really suprising…my favorite part was the fact that there was a picture of tailgating on the front page with a story about Duke’s academics</p>

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<p>This is how I would interpret the Chronicle article. I would look at the last sentence only:</p>

<p>"“Duke is a special place,” said Guttentag. “There are many students who find it just the right match for them.”</p>

<p>But of course, t’would just be my interpretation. (Insert wink or smiley if you want.)</p>

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<p>Also interesting to note is that the article doesn’t have any real substance to it – yes, we lose the majority of cross-admits to HYPSM, and yes, our SAT median is slightly lower. But those things don’t really measure the quality of the student body or the education, and there’s no objective way to do so. That said, it’s not difficult to argue for any top school’s superiority with the right set of statistics (e.g., post-graduate fellowship results from last year make Duke look better than Harvard).</p>

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<p>I think everoyne is forgetting that the article isn’t geared to CC but the general student body…the vast majority of college kids don’t know as much about college rankings as CC so the article isn’t quite as obvious</p>

<p>still, the 40 to 60 range is also pretty vague</p>

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<p>So Duke is on par with Brown, Columbia, Dartmouth and Penn; and slightly below HYPSM. What’s the shocker?</p>

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<p>Duke offers many merit scholarships to their applicants and many of them involve full tuition. Some of these are scholarships students must be nominated for and some are scholarships that the students are awarded when they are accepted. This is Duke’s way of attracting outstanding applicants who may also be accepted to HYP but who receive no merit money there, as the ivy league cannot offer merit scholarships. There are many outstanding students at Duke, and there are many outstanding students at Duke who turned down Harvard, Yale and Princeton to come to Duke on a full or partial scholarship.</p>

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<p>Not THAT many – at least in the case of Harvard – since, according to the New York Times, more than 97% of common admits choose Cambridge over Durham. Of course, without the merit scholarships, it might not have been that close.</p>

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<p>[flame deleted - Mod JEM]</p>

<p>Oh, and your statement should read, “About 7-8 years ago, 97% of common admits from established feeder high schools chose Cambridge over Durham.” Try looking at where the data came from.</p>

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<p>[Personal comment regarding another poster deleted - Mod JEM]</p>

<p>The model predicts, hypothetically based on a survey of a select group of students, that 97% of students are likely to choose Harvard over Duke</p>

<p>In reality, abou 10-15% of students choose Duke over Harvard…this isn’t a prediciton but the actual data</p>

<p>collegebound, there are about 30 students a year given a merit scholarship, a far smaller proportion than caltech, uchicago, and not even 2% of the student body</p>

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<p>I know the study well, and also know the actual, year-to-year cross-admit rates (for Harvard at least). </p>

<p>For a variety of reasons, the RP model generally overstates the fraction of common admits captured by the “losing” school.</p>

<p>Like it or not - for good or for ill - at the elite level, college admissions is a “winner-take-all” proposition.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0001s.pdf[/url]”>Error;

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<p>

</p>

<p>Based on the stats released from Harvard? thethoughtprocess will probably have a word with you about that. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Look, no one here denies Harvard’s place among the higher ed elite. [Personal flame deleted - Mod JEM]</p>

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<p>Gee, I am stunned that someone from a school that can not/does not offer merit aid wrote an article on how it would be nice if no one offered merit aid. Can you find something from a philatelist about the usefulness of stamps for us? It would be equally relevant, and perhaps would have an even more lovely color scheme.</p>

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<p>Cross admit numbers vary little from year to year, and the pecking order, like it or not, is fairly rigid. If anything, the disparities have become greater in recent times.</p>

<p>There are reasons for this.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp9901.pdf[/url]”>http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp9901.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>So I did a text search for “Duke” in that last pdf file - couldn’t find it. Did I spell it wrong? (not “it” of course, “Duke”).</p>

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<p>This one about merit scholarships at Duke, and the admissions edge given to applicants from the Carolinas:</p>

<p><a href=“http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/09/28/News/Duke-Has.Carolina.On.Its.Mind-2314201.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com[/url]”>http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/09/28/News/Duke-Has.Carolina.On.Its.Mind-2314201.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p><a href=“http://www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/09/27/News/Research.Reveals.Impact.Of.Lax.Scandal.On.Dukes.Image-2310891.shtml?norewrite200609281117&sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com[/url]”>http://www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/09/27/News/Research.Reveals.Impact.Of.Lax.Scandal.On.Dukes.Image-2310891.shtml?norewrite200609281117&sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>or this one</p>

<p>btw I think Byerly is a closet Duke fan…</p>

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<p>Duke is a terrific school with certain interesting regional advantages and disadvantages when it comes to recruiting. Thoughtprocess: did you find the report of this study a little strange, in that it focusses on the reaction and views of insiders (alumni) rather than outsiders?</p>

<p>To make an analogy, its a little like asking those admitted Early Decision whether they think the practice should be abolished. Naturally they don’t. Equally important may be the views of the great majority who were rejected!</p>

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<p>Who cares about academics? </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/09/28/News/Trojan.Ranks.Duke.8th.In.Sexual.Health-2314207.shtml?norewrite200609281341&sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com[/url]”>http://www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/09/28/News/Trojan.Ranks.Duke.8th.In.Sexual.Health-2314207.shtml?norewrite200609281341&sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>P.S. Byerly, how did Harvard do on this one? :)</p>