<p>I wonder if it would be possible to find a recording of Trayvon Martin’s voice-- a voicemail or something.</p>
<p>It seems to me, Zimmerman’s family and friends who went on the airwaves with this whole he-attacked-me-I-shot-him-in-self-defense story made the whole situation so much worse for Zimmerman. Zimmerman’s story of having to defend himself sounds less and less plausible with each passing day. Had his family and friends kept quiet, the onus could have been on the police and their actions, or lack thereof. Instead, the focus is on the story Zimmerman’s side put forth, and the facts that contradict that story, making them all to seem like a bunch of liars.</p>
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<p>I was struck by that too. Scapegoating others, as well as poor self-insight, are also characteristics of the authoritarian personality.</p>
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Agreed, and if he is charged and brought to trial, he will suffer the consequences. The publicity generate in part by his (or his family’s) claim may have caused some witnesses to surface who otherwise would not have spoken up. Legally, the family members like the brother can be called as witnesses to the statements he made to them, so he does not have the option of testifying to something different at trial. (What he said to others in a non-privileged context is admissible as a “prior inconsistent statement” if and when he testifies to anything different). Of course, if he gave a false or implausible story to the police, the same concern is there. In the long run, he might have elevated a possible manslaughter conviction into a 1st or 2nd degree murder. </p>
<p>Of course, if it is Trayvon Martin’s voice on the 911 tape, that’s pretty damning no matter what. And I would assume that the family must have voice recordings – most likely a voice mail, but these days with everyone having video cameras in their cell phones & posting to you tube, there are probably multiple recordings floating around.</p>
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<p>I don’t have to be convinced. I won’t be on any potential jury in this case. And I’ve never once said this guy was innocent of anything. But I also have not convicted him like many of you have done already.</p>
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poetgrl, </p>
<p>Where do you get that it took 72 hours to notify the victim’s family? </p>
<p>It has been reported that Trayvon Martin was not carrying any identification on him when he was killed. His father was not at home when the shooting happened and returned to his house through a back gate to the community so did not see the police activity that he would have seen had he entered through the front gate. </p>
<p>It was not until the next morning that Tracy Martin called the police and it was then that the police sent a detective to his house to inform him of what happened.</p>
<p>Patsmom–really he wasn’t carrying any id? How bout his cell phone? </p>
<p>Hopscout–we may be airing our thoughts here…and discussing Z’s actual behavior. I absolutely want him arrested and charged with this killing. You say we are convicting him by wanting justice. Not true. He deserves a trial. Ironically Z never gave Trayvon a chance, he convicted him, and sentenced him to death and perfomed the execution. Strangely you are joining in an attempt to convict the victim. Why? What if he was a boy scout? Would that help?</p>
<p>Sent from my MB860 usin</p>
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<p>Really, cobrat? How low can you go? Implying that those who extoll not rushing to judgment are <em>fascists?</em> Why is it that some people who cannot rationally respond to alternative viewpoints must resort to name calling? What personality disorder is consistent with that profile? Paranoid schizophrenia?</p>
<p>I don’t recall anyone on this entire thread denigrating Trayvon. For the sake of the families of the other parties involved, if for no other reason, it would be appropriate to accord them the same respect, at least until there is a legal judgment in this case.</p>
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<p>I think the answer is yes. In fact, it looks like if Zimmerman were black and he shot a white Iraqi war veteran in front of his child, Zimmerman would remain free. </p>
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<p>[Iraq</a> War veteran killed; widow says Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law is free pass for murder | ksdk.com](<a href=“http://www.ksdk.com/news/world/article/311679/28/Widow-says-Floridas-Stand-Your-Ground-law-is-free-pass-for-murder]Iraq”>http://www.ksdk.com/news/world/article/311679/28/Widow-says-Floridas-Stand-Your-Ground-law-is-free-pass-for-murder)</p>
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<p>Really? </p>
<p>Then what do you call your attempts to cast aspersions on the victim by using information that’s completely irrelevant to the incident or its handling by local law enforcement/officials here: </p>
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<p>The above is a common tactic used by many criminal defense attorneys and has been deemed irrelevant, prejudicial, and sleazy by many judges, prosecutors, and victims rights advocates. </p>
<p>In fact, it is considered so much so that this tactic is limited or even banned for certain categories of crimes and can earn legal sanctions if said defense attorney decides to proceed in this manner.</p>
<p>thanks, Razorsharp-- </p>
<p>clearly this law is insane. The guy crosses the street to get in an altercation with this guy, and he is carrying a gun with him, and he kills the guy, and pleads ‘stand your ground?’ Perhaps we need a new definition of 'your ground."</p>
<p>However, a couple of important things to note: this suspect was arrested and he did have to go to trial.</p>
<p>So, it may point to the insanity of the law, but, the killer of the 17 year old black boy was simply let go. which is different, in degree. imho.</p>
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<p>One incident has happened within the last 4-6 weeks; the other happened almost two years ago.</p>
<p>The law does sound terrible and it likely needs re-worked. I’m sure we could probably find more cases of it being misapplied if we were to look. Good luck getting politicians to work together to fix it…</p>
<p>cobrat,</p>
<p>Apparently you are incapable of discerning sarcasm without the appropriate smiley face.</p>
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<p>That is an understatement. It is A HUGE difference as an arrest tends to prompt a greater investigation to give both the victim/family and the defendant a day in court. That’s not what happened to the Zimmerman case. </p>
<p>Moreover, there’s also the factor that the Sanford PD has had a past dubious history of “protecting their own” whether it was a police lieutenant’s son beating a homeless man on video* or this case. </p>
<ul>
<li>[Cop's</a> Son Caught On Cam Punching Homeless Man | <a href=“http://www.wftv.com%5B/url%5D”>www.wftv.com](<a href=“http://www.wftv.com/news/news/cops-son-caught-on-cam-punching-homeless-man/nKGLk/]Cop’s”>http://www.wftv.com/news/news/cops-son-caught-on-cam-punching-homeless-man/nKGLk/)</a></li>
</ul>
<p>actually hopsscout, I did link an article a day or two ago which points to the fact that more and more people are claiming stand your ground.</p>
<p>I believe in castle laws. I believe in the right to bear arms.</p>
<p>But I seriously disagree with these NRA lobby written stand your ground laws, and I sincerely hope this case makes them rethink it.</p>
<p>the other case Razorsharp linked is horrifying, that man killed a man in front of his daughter. He crossed the street to the park to fight with this vet because the vet was defending a kid’s right to skateboard on the basketball court and shot him in front of his daughter.</p>
<p>In both the case with Z, and the case with this shooter, I don’t see either of them starting these fights unless they had a gun. In essence, the presence of the gun makes both their lives less safe. This is not a good law.</p>
<p>"(And, from what we know, Trayvon Martin never killed anyone - Black, white, or green)"</p>
<p>And how could we possibly know that? Unless of course, this has a pre-scripted storyline. Nothing more to it than we want to believe and what the press edits to show us.</p>
<p>Wonder what Zimmerman had to gain by killing this kid? Wonder why he did it. Apparently just a racist guy, looking for a harmless teenager to kill. Thinking that if he could just murder a teenager, his life would be complete?</p>
<p>Or maybe it was just an avoidable tragedy based on fear. It’s interesting to me, reading people’s analysis of who did what and when, and without feeling the element of cold, hard fear (for both individuals involved), you cannot consider this in context.</p>
<p>I wants to say something. Z is the neighborhood watch, simple right. TM is a teen living in a gated community. it could be simple that to TM getting some stuff is a routine. Therefore, Z must have seen him on other walks prior to this. I have to believe that it was more of a fear instilled into him during this time period. Race might have played a role as part of the fear. But rasicm is the total support of one race over all the others–> That why I doubt the main reason is rasicm.</p>
<p>We got it, cobrat. You have repeated over and over that the Sanford PD’s record looks ‘dubious,’ due to the incident involving a lieutenants’s son. And there is no doubt that the incident will be introduced at trial if it is deemed relevant. So what does it mean to you? That there is no doubt that the PD engaged in a cover-up in this case? That there is no doubt that the PD are racists, and that is why they didn’t make an arrest in this case? That there is no doubt that the PD makes always makes decisions based upon a suspect’s relationship with law enforcement, and that is why they didn’t make an arrest in this case? You write as though you are an expert in the law, so why don’t you tell us why there is any point in collecting any evidence, if we’ve got the case locked up based upon this incident in the PD’s history?</p>
<p>Descuff, Trayvon did not live in this neighborhood, his father did. So Trayvon very likely was a stranger to Zimmerman.</p>
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<p>The question would then be whether that fear was reasonable. I do believe Zimmerman was fearful, to the point of paranoia. But I don’t think, given what we do know so far, that whatever fear Zimmerman may have felt, was reasonable. Or that this tragedy was unavoidable.</p>
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<p>No, it’s not that simple. First, according to the national neighborhood watch association and older relatives/friends who have been part of their respective neighborhood watch associations in many states…including Florida…carrying a weapon and confronting a suspicious person directly goes against their guidelines. </p>
<p>Their main role is to observe the suspicious person/activity, report it to the cops, and let the cops handle the rest. What Zimmerman did goes against those guidelines and is probably one factor in why that gated community’s neighborhood watch isn’t registered with the national association.* </p>
<p>Moreover, Zimmerman has had a past history of making an excessive number of 911 calls** which turned out to be unfounded or sketchy…and guess who the “suspicious characters/children” happen to be…</p>
<ul>
<li>[Local</a> community watch leaders, law enforcement officers agree: Call 911 | Statesville Record & Landmark](<a href=“http://www2.statesville.com/news/2012/mar/31/local-community-watch-leaders-law-enforcement-offi-ar-2108205/]Local”>http://www2.statesville.com/news/2012/mar/31/local-community-watch-leaders-law-enforcement-offi-ar-2108205/)</li>
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<p>** [George</a> Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel](<a href=“http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-19/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-george-zimmerman-911-20120319_1_neighborhood-county-sheriff-s-office-crime-watch]George”>http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-19/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-george-zimmerman-911-20120319_1_neighborhood-county-sheriff-s-office-crime-watch)</p>
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<p>It means that there’s a serious credibility problem of Sanford PD and that at the very least…they lost the right to expect a critical thinking public to take their interpretations/statements at their word without deep scrutinization of the “Trust, but verify” category to ensure not only minimization of ineptitude in investigating certain cases…but also attempting to protect one of their “good old boys”. </p>
<p>What’s more disturbing is that even this may not be enough judging by state and especially Federal officials’ stepping in to investigate this case and possibly Sanford PD.</p>