<p>Aw well, ever since Ted Kaczynski the hoodie has had a bad rap.</p>
<p>I live in a mixed neighborhood. If I were to see a young black man walking alone I wouldn’t give it a second thought. However, if I were to see a group of young men of any racial composition, I would steer clear.</p>
<p>Yep. Sexist. Me.</p>
<p>Average in America? Doesn’t exist. And that’s a good thing. “Hey Dad, I wanna be average when I grow up.” NOT.</p>
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<ol>
<li><p>Check the address book. See whether there are any listings identified as “ICE” (“in case of emergency”) or “Mom” or “Dad”. Call those numbers.</p></li>
<li><p>Push the call button to see a list of the most recent numbers called. Note time of calls. If, perchance, there is a call that took place only minutes before the shooting — call that number. (I’d note that course of action would have potentially protected Zimmerman, because it would have given police an opportunity to talk to Martin’s girlfriend at a time immediately after the shooting, when her recollection of the conversation with Martin would have been very fresh in her mind, and before she had an opportunity to talk to friends, family, and the lawyers representing Martin’s parents and think carefully about what she said.)</p></li>
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<p>I would note that there is NO 4th amendment search & seizure concern as to Martin’s cell-phone because he was DEAD. If police grabbed a cell phone from a subject they had just arrested, it would be different – but basically its ok to search a dead body & everything associated with it. So once they had the cell phone, they could and should have used the info in both to identify the victim and to investigate possible witnesses to the events leading up to the shooting.</p>
<p>“Racism is not simply a matter of harboring feelings. It’s not simply prejudice. It is a system of advantage/disadvantage where people are actually treated differently (and often “unconsciously”) based on their skin color, and assumptions based on skin color.”</p>
<p>There have been a rash of crimes toward women in my city lately. Many of them, a disproportionate number of them for the makeup of this city, have been committed by black and hispanic men. If I am walking around in my neighborhood by myself late at night (which I would never do), but if I see a black or hispanic man approaching me that I don’t know, my guard is coming up quickly, my finger wrapped around anything I’m carrying so I can use it as a weapon if I need to. I’m getting ready to run. A white man, used to bring the same level of concern because there have been a number of attacks of women in the past from white guys. Not lately though, and many of the attackers have not been caught. I would not be near as concerned about an Asian man, because it is so rare to hear of a crime against a women by them. A middle aged female jogger of any color, I’m smiling and saying hello, feeling completely safe, hoping I’m not scaring her.</p>
<p>Are these feelings of racism? Sexism? Or is this just being intelligent about your surroundings, determining who the likely threat is? It sure isn’t from the female jogger.</p>
<p>This seems to be a very detailed and --surprisingly neutral-- timeline summary. [Nation</a> & World | At heart of Trayvon Martin death, a one-minute mystery | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017887566_trayvonmartinfacts02.html?prmid=head_main]Nation”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017887566_trayvonmartinfacts02.html?prmid=head_main)</p>
<p>By the way, so much for eyewitnesses.</p>
<p>^ easy busdriver, you are not being politically correct here…lol</p>
<p>Hey geeps, political correctness won’t keep you alive, will it? I would be as scared of the lady jogger if I was thinking the way I’m supposed to. Either way, I would have been more alarmed seeing an older guy that looked like Zimmerman in the dark, than a teenager who looked like Martin.</p>
<p>All this crime around here lately has caused me to purchase a huge can of bear spray (and no, that’s not for the #1 threat…bears).</p>
<p>I’m inclined to agree with Hunt, mini, and busdriver’s most recent posts. That is, the “true facts” will continue to be murky, and it probably won’t turn out to be a case of “overt” racism, but race-based assumptions will have played a part.</p>
<p>Having said all that, nothing changes the fact that a 17 year old boy is dead, and he wouldn’t be if George Zimmerman didn’t carry a gun around. That’s not “irrelevant” - it’s the one thing we can actually be pretty sure about that played a significant role in a tragedy.</p>
<p>I know that’s not “politically correct” by modern standards of “correctness” - we’re all supposed to be gun-totin’ cowboys, the result of which will be a nirvana of politeness and no crime. But this is the reality:</p>
<p>Some people are idiots most of the time, most people are idiots some of the time. You give everyone a gun and you have a lot of people in idiot mode with a gun at any given moment. There was one in Sanford on February 26. Now a boy is dead and the gun-owner’s life is ruined.</p>
<p>Congratulations, NRA: this Bud’s for you!</p>
<p>Re: Trayvon’s cell phone.</p>
<p>While admittedly, this does not make a whole lot of sense to me, particularly in light of calmom’s point that the deceased are not entitled to 4th Amendment protections, here is one source (not from Florida) who claims that accessing cell phone information is not permitted by law in some states:</p>
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<p>[17-Year-Old</a> Trayvon Martin Was Shot And Killed By George Zimmerman Who Claims Self Defense | digtriad.com](<a href=“404 Not Found | wfmynews2.com”>404 Not Found | wfmynews2.com)</p>
<p>Trayvon was dead. So, how could evidence in his phone be used against him? If the police went thru and saw the contact list and saw mom…and then called that number, how in the world would that violate his rights? He was dead.</p>
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<p>I don’t think he <em>consciously</em>, intentionally thought that. But I believe when he looked at Trayvon, his mind came up with “suspicious burglar” whereas if he’d seen a blond boy doing exactly the same thing, his mind wouldn’t have come up with “suspicious”. I don’t think identifying suspicious characters is a conscious action. But then, he never did what needs to be the next step-- putting his rational mind, Kahneman’s System 2, on the case, to consciously evaluate whether this kid who was just walking along was a true threat.</p>
<p>He moved right into “They always get away,” without figuring out what Trayvon Martin was supposedly getting away from or with.</p>
<p>Seems in Florida I can shoot an enemy and go, well, I felt threatened and voila, I’m off scot free.</p>
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<p>I don’t see how it could, unless it implicated others in other crimes, via text messages, photos, videos, etc.</p>
<p>^ By that logic police couldn’t use any evidence. “Don’t check that jacket. It might contain something that compromises a third party.”</p>
<p>I never claimed to be an expert in this. When we bought our first cell phone, we shared it amongst family members, also, all of our current phones are billed in my name only. Perhaps there is an issue with regard to ownership of cell phones and thus the right of pd to search without a warrant if ownership has not been established. I’m just guessing here.</p>
<p>On CSI, they just grab the phone, place it on a special table and all the information gets displayed on a big monitor.</p>
<p>Bay, a 3rd party cannot assert someone else’s 4th amendment rights. That is, if the police found a slew of text messages about drug dealing (for example) on a dead man’s phone and then used that info to help prosecute a living drug dealer, the drug dealer could not challenge the search. A criminal defendant can only assert his own 4th amendment rights, not someone else’s. This is very long-standing and clearly established law. Here are some links to articles explaining this:
[Criminal</a> Procedure Capsule Summary - Chapter 6](<a href=“http://www.lexisnexis.com/lawschool/study/outlines/html/crimpro/crimpro06.htm]Criminal”>http://www.lexisnexis.com/lawschool/study/outlines/html/crimpro/crimpro06.htm)</p>
<p>[Standing</a> To Contest A Fourth Amendment Violation | Casebriefs](<a href=“http://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/criminal-procedure/outline-criminal-procedure-law/fourth-amendment-rights-remedies-exclusionary-rule-privacy-interests-consent-standing-fruits/standing-to-contest-a-fourth-amendment-violation/]Standing”>Standing To Contest A Fourth Amendment Violation | Case Brief for Law Students | Casebriefs)</p>
<p>[Operation</a> of the Rule: Standing :: Fourth Amendment–Search and Seizure :: US Constitution :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia](<a href=“http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/34-standing.html]Operation”>Operation of the Rule: Standing :: Fourth Amendment -- Search and Seizure :: US Constitution Annotated :: Justia)</p>
<p>So basically the claim that the police would need a warrant or court order to look at a dead guy’s cell phone is total b.s.</p>
<p>In any case, even if they did need a warrant, they could have gotten that in 20 minutes with a phone call. There’s always a duty judge available to issue warrants.</p>
<p>I mean – think about it logically – it doesn’t even make sense. </p>
<p>The records maintained by the cell phone carrier are a different matter - a subpena or warrant would be needed before ATT or Verizon of whatever carrier he had could be compelled to turn over records — but even “dumb” cell phones are going to show the most recently dialed numbers on the phone itself, and typically will also have list of contacts.</p>
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<p>Yes, that makes sense. As I thought through it, I was thinking more in terms of who owned the cell phone. If Trayvon’s dad bought the phone and paid the bills, does the phone belong to Trayvon? Can that presumption be made, just because it was in his possession at the time? I don’t need to say that he was not alive to confirm who owned the phone. If it belongs to his dad, can the PD search it without a warrant?</p>
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<p>Ok. I think that answers the question of how much the PD could have done to i.d. Trayvon immediately. Whether they were reasonable and met standard protocol by merely fingerprinting and waiting is another.</p>
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<p>I read too many comments referring to gated community and making the assumption that because it is a gate community the number and type of visitors is restricted. Maybe the gated community of Zimmerman had high walls all around it and a guard at the front entry 24/7, but that is not what most of the “gated communities” in florida are like. Many have gates at the front entry that require a security card to lift the gate but do not have a guard. Many have gates to restrict the flow of vehicles but do not have walls or fences at all. Placing significant on the neighborhood as “gated” is likely misplaced.</p>