<p>An unarmed kid goes out for skittles and iced tea. Walking home he’s pursued for no good reason, and shot dead. Happens all the time, right? And as long as the victim is not one of “us” what’s the problem?</p>
<p>The bottom line is if the Sanford PD hadn’t done such a sub-standard job we wouldn’t even be talking about this episode. Now it’s going to take something equivalent to the Warren Report to calm the waters.</p>
<p>If we are talking about what looks most likely, it is:</p>
<p>Trayvon did nothing wrong; Zimmerman thought he was doing the right and reasonable thing by protecting his community and then himself; and the police did their jobs, including applying a terrible law to the circumstances.</p>
<p>After all that has been said and done so far, I don’t see anything that contradicts this.</p>
<p>What concerns me is that there is so much we don’t know that we don’t know. I’m fairly confident that Zimmerman was a thug, because he has a record. I really don’t understand why he thought getting out of the car with a gun was a good idea. Beyond that, I have no idea. Maybe there were other factors, maybe he is a cold-blooded killer. I do not know and nobody else does either.</p>
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<p>Just because an individual may think and even truly believe he/she was doing the right and reasonable thing in his/her own mind does not necessarily make it so. </p>
<p>History is littered with examples of individuals/groups who thought/believed in their minds that they were doing the right and reasonable thing. </p>
<p>When judged by more objective outsiders and historians, however, such individual groups ended up committing some of the most brutal and heinous actions one could think of. Included in this dubious group was the Ted Kaczynski, Charles Manson, Beltway snipers, Columbine murderers, KKK, organized crime, various authoritarian/totalitarian regimes of the Fascist/Communist varieties and their armed forces, etc.</p>
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So where do we get some of those objective outsiders?</p>
<p>When it comes to applying the law, it doesn’t matter that Zimmerman thought he was reasonable, only that a reasonable person would agree that his thoughts and actions were reasonable, given all of the circumstances at the time.</p>
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<p>To take the example of one of the Fascist/Totalitarian regimes and their associated armed forces…anyone who is not part of…or sympathetic to them for starters.</p>
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We all believe you are educated cobrat, you don’t need to try so hard. George Zimmerman has nothing to do with fascistic/totalitarian regimes.</p>
<p>It is within the context of this thread that objectivity is so important in our current national life.</p>
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Which we don’t know.</p>
<p>How many of you have never been in a situation where you absolutely believed that X was true and were so sure that you looked no further, only to later learn that Y was actually true based on information you didn’t possess when making your decision? I certainly have.</p>
<p>No, we don’t know all of the circumstances and probably never will, so we have to look only at what we now know.</p>
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<p>You seemed to have missed my point. </p>
<p>I was using them as one great example of groups that thought/believed what they were doing is right and reasonable in their minds…even when they were scapegoating/profiling/harassing unpopular marginalized groups at best…not to mention them committing unspeakable war crimes and genocides against defenseless civilians and POWs. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, a variant of this scapegoating/profiling which may have played a role in Z’s actions that night seems to still be with us in the 21st century as seen below:</p>
<p>[George</a> Zimmerman’s neighbor says 8 prior burglaries were by ‘young black males’ - National unsolved cases | Examiner.com](<a href=“Examiner is back - Examiner.com”>Examiner is back - Examiner.com)</p>
<p>"… only that a reasonable person would agree that his thoughts and actions were reasonable, given all of the circumstances at the time."</p>
<p>Then Z is totally scr*ewed.</p>
<p>Ah Sunday night. I got nothing going on (again). Time to strap on my piece and head out to the boulevard. No telling what I might see.</p>
<p>NewHope33,
We know that you have already tried, convicted and sentenced Z. The facts are that 2/3 cops found SYG to apply; they took it to the DA, who agreed; a new special prosecutor, the FBI and the US Attorney are investigating and still no charges have been filed or arrests made. It doesn’t look so easy to me, but maybe I am not cynical enough.</p>
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<p>Don’t forget to call 911 several times along the way, so they know where you are and who you intend to murder. Brilliant.</p>
<p>"… 2/3 cops found SYG to apply; they took it to the DA, who agreed"</p>
<p>You left out the part about the 2/3 cops basing their opinion on Z’s account.</p>
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<p>I recall that’s what most people thought about Casey Anthony.</p>
<p>I agree with Zoosermom on the issue of hold tight and let the system work through this.</p>
<p>But, if the grand jurors have people on there who have been mugged or have or had relatives who have, what is “objectively reasonable” may not be what you think it is. If they think Z’s gun was holstered but that Trayvon saw it and Trayvon went for it and a struggle over the gun commenced in which Z shot Trayvon, there may be a no-bill under the stand your ground law.</p>
<p>Trayvon’s age isn’t really a “pass” in the actual world and may not be with the grand jury. On CC we may think of a 17 year old as a big ole’ “kid.” Google “17 year old kills” and start reading. Lots of 17 year olds kill.</p>
<p>“Time to strap on my piece …”</p>
<p>I was addressing the issue of reasonableness. Strap on your piece? Sunday evening? No particular place to go? Wow … just wow.</p>
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You don’t know that. I am delighted that you are so well informed about history and can make such lovely arguments. But the collective rush to judgment is a very dangerous thing.</p>
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<p>…and 6 (?) witnesses, and examining the scene and 911 calls.</p>