@tkoparent . Are you willing to say what those schools are in the Northwest, Texas, and Midwest? I would love any suggestions. Also, @thedreamydaisy . My daughter would LOVE to attend UCSC. A lot will depend on how the SATs work out.
Sure. In the Northwest, I can think of Lewis & Clark, Puget Sound and Williamette (all EA schools), as well as Whitman - I believe there are others, but these are the ones we looked at. In Texas, my son applied EA to Trinity University in San Antonio, which is a lovely school that is trying to diversify geographically. There are others - people say nice things about Austin College, for example. In the Midwest, a draft of our list from a year or so ago included St. Olaf, Lawrence (our second EA school), Denison, Kenyon, Knox and College of Wooster, but there are many others.
Whitman is lovely, I have been to Walla Walla. But in my opinion that is not a college for B students is it? (Topic of this thread) That seems more A student territory to me. My daughter is a B student, maybe B plus. And, bless her heart, she is NOT a “leader” which is what all colleges seem to desire. My question is: if everyone is a leader, who are they leading?
Hi welcome. I was just talking about this topic on the 2019 board. We definitely don’t all have genius kids who cured cancer or fed the starving goats I think it was.
Don’t despair. There are options out there for the average student. D19 is a mostly A/B student, few Cs freshman year, decent ACT but not above 30, decent amount of participation in ECs, but nothing really amazing or that would set her apart. She’s easy going, tends to get along well with almost anyone, a hard worker, has great organizational and study skills, and interviews really well. I think those skills helped her more than anything. There was never a shortage of people willing to write rec letters. She received some amount of merit aid from I think every school she was accepted to. There might have been one or two she didn’t get anything from. She applied to twenty something schools, and got into all but one where she was waitlisted. Most schools, besides the public, gave her 50% to 75% of tuition in merit aid. Many invited her back to compete for more money which she won each time, so don’t despair. You do have options.
There may be a better way to do this, but what we did was compile a decent sized list of schools that fit our general criteria (quality of program for interested major, location, overall cost, aid, size, etc.) Then we looked at each of those schools to see where the average score range was falling for the accepted students. Schools were her ACT / GPA score would put her above the average, went at the top of our list as those were the ones she’d be most likely to get merit aid from. Schools where her score fell inside the average where placed lower down the priority list. Schools where her score fell at or below the bottom range where thrown out or placed in a reach pile.
For instance, let’s say you’ve got an ACT of 27
School A has an average range of 21 to 24.
You’ll probably get aid if they are known for giving it.
School B has a range of 24 to 27.
You’ll probably get accepted, but merit aid is iffy. That’s the average, so there’s a good chance there will be a good number of students admitted at a higher than 27 score. You might get it, but no guarantee. I’d expect it on the smaller side if you do.
School C is 27 to 32.
You may get in, but you are not getting merit aid.
School D 30 to 36.
You probably aren’t getting in, definitely not getting aid.
I know someone mentioned Trinity earlier, but that was definitely a reach for us, and it ended up being where she got waitlisted. I wouldn’t call it a safe choice for a B student unless they can compensate with an amazing ACT score or a great hook. Even then, the acceptance rate is only 38%, so definitely not a safety.
Stats according to their website:
HS GPA - Average unweighted (academic solids): 3.7
ACT Middle 50%: 29-33
SAT Middle 50%: 1300-1440
We fell barely above the average GPA, but below the average ACT. We honestly expected they’d reject her outright, so it was a pleasant surprise to be waitlisted.
The only other thing I’ll add is LEADERSHIP. Oh, my gosh, I lost track of the number of essays, interview questions, and forms that required her to detail how she’d been a leader in her school, club, community, etc. That was all anyone seemed to care about, and I think her having two really good ECs she could use for examples of that and one sports related captaincy (even though it was only a for fun sport, not competitive) really helped. My biggest recommendation for a B student would be go find something you care about you can show leadership skills in. I can’t think of any other reason she’d get so much merit aid because she was literally the absolute lowest you could be for every scholarship she received, like one point lower, and you don’t qualify. I know a number of schools we visited (not ones we applied to) told us that merit aid is given based on ECs and other factors, not scores. You need a certain score to be considered, but after that, they treat someone with a 36 the same as someone with a 30. I’m not sure how true that is for how many schools, but it did seem to be the case for her.
Hopefully, this information helps some. Just know you aren’t alone.
really, stop by our 2019 thread!!!
and look at the 2017 one which is linked on the first page.
Bear in mind that threads are created by individuals, not CC. If you build it, they will come.
I started the 2017 and 2019 threads for those ranges because there was a gap. It honestly has been one of the more rewarding things I’ve ever done.
I will be posting an updated results list for the 2019 group in the not to distant future on the thread above. Our kids have had amazing results, well thought out application plans and yes, will go to college. It’s an amazing group of parents and one who will gladly assist with thoughts and ideas.
With leadership sometimes, you’ve got to think outside the box. Most of D19 leadership involved mentoring younger kids through various programs at school. You might try looking into those types of options. Leading younger children is much less daunting than leading peers. Do you have a Boys and Girls program she could volunteer with, know a Girl Scout troop, an after school or summer camp she could help out with? Many schools also have Ambassadors who hand out pamphlets, lead tours, buddy up with new kids, etc. Again it’s leadership, but not on the level of being president of the club or having to take on a huge amount of responsibility.
What is she already involved in or interested in? Could she lead a mini project on a smaller scale within that club or group? Again, those of us not shooting for Yale don’t have to be student body president, just find something you can swing as leadership. Into art, take charge and lead the painting of a mural. Care about the environment, school pride. Organize and lead a clean up day around campus or at the local park. Basically, that means create and send a few fliers out, buy some trash bags, then show up and “supervise”. Congratulations, you’ve lead a project! Play in the band, see about arranging or organizing a concert. That may sound overwhelming, but it’s basically just you going and asking other people to do something. Leading doesn’t mean you have to do it all, only that you need to make sure it gets done by someone. Don’t over complicate it. You can find things to lead if you try. Leadership doesn’t have to be a named position like President or Captain.
Honestly, I think the more non-traditional leadership roles are easier to write about anyway since most are asking for specific examples of A or B that would be harder to explain if you were simply President of the club, verses someone who took charge and accomplished something or someone who could show how they made a difference or improved their community through their leadership. Captain of the football team doesn’t really equate to I helped my community in any way.
@AgouraLiz What does your daughter want to do?
The Evergreen State College is an alternative college that provides a path for students who are passionate about a topic and do well in a project-based setting, but who may not be motivated by extrinsic rewards like a GPA. 98% acceptance.
It’s ranked well for instruction and life-changing… not so much for research, but if she’s into public policy, it’s a great option.
The vast majority of colleges do not have competitive admissions. Many are pretty much open admissions. So it’s a matter of what sort of college a student wants that is affordable, and research those schools, keeping an eye out for selectivity. It would be unrealistic to be applying only to schools where a student’s stats fall in the lowest 25%, but to have a super reach or two in that category, is not a big deal. Just make sure there is at least one school on the list that is likely, even sure to accept the student.
The strategy was pretty much the same with all of my kids, who varied widely in terms of what sort of schools would be be realistic reaches. We pretty much worked with the sure thing schools first, getting that out of the way, and then looked at other schools that were not as likely to accept any given student. It’s always good to have that early acceptance in hand. Love the rolling admissions schools…
@AgouraLiz @SwimmingDad Adding to your side note …I went to Agoura HS a lifetime ago :).
Live in VA now and have similar insanity about getting into the top state public schools. Neither of my kids is curing cancer or climbing Everest, but I’m sure they’ll go to college somewhere. I’ve found the B student threads here very reassuring, especially for my S21 who has a good academic record but really resistant to do anything extracurricular.
@JESmom . Thank you! Do you miss Agoura? I will be spending time on the B student threads for sure! My daughter isnt an EC person either.
@AgouraLiz I miss some of it, but my family all moved away (some to Sacramento, some to Denver) so we rarely get back unless we are passing through. I was really an East Coast person at heart – born in NJ – and love Virginia. Of course, now my S21 wants to go to college in CA! I sympathize…I wanted to go to William & Mary but went to Cal Poly SLO instead. Told him if he can do the same, go in-state in VA and then move to CA. Or, find a CA college that will cost us the same as in-state VA but that’s not likely. CA schools aren’t generally good w/ merit aid for OOS students.
OP, note that the process of finding a good school for a B student is very different for the family that can pay full fare – or the family that needs a fair amount of financial aid.
@katliamom . Can you explain? Thanks. Haven’t looked into that too much.
@AgouraLiz Just that there many good colleges and universities where B students can get in if they’re full pay. So if you have the $45,000 - $50,000+ per year, your B child will have lots of good options. But if your budget is closer to, say, $25,000 per year – then the college search becomes more difficult.
@katliamom
Agreed and $75k per year opens up even more options.
Indeed it does :))
Conversely, if the budget is only $5,000 per year, the college search for a B student can become very limiting (even an A+ student with top SAT/ACT scores has significant limitations on that budget).
Other schools – Rhodes, Sewanee, Furman, Hobart and William Smith, possibly SMU etc etc etc
Thanks for all the useful suggestions! I am so glad to read them! Question…on this website I see references to “directional universities”. Does that mean places like Western Washington and Northern Arizona universities? What is appealing or special about directional universities and why do you like them, or not like them? Thanks!
Yes, directional universities are universities with a direction in their name like central,
Northern, Western, …
You have to look carefully for funding, class sizes, and resources. Because they’re less selective many states underfunded them. In the other hand, some have interesting specialty programs, good scholarships, honors programs… Worth checking out and comparing since there aee typically several in the state. In addition, some less competitive private colleges may align their net costs to that of the directional since they’re competing or the same students (especially true in the Northeast and Midwest, which are missing students).