<p>Jet America – will start off with service to a variety of mid America cities – Lansing, Toledo, South Bend</p>
<p>Yep, it was in our paper today (Toledo) - sounds like it will just be flying to a couple cities to begin with - Newark, a Florida city (Melborne? Trying to remember off the top of my head) and then something like Minneapolis…I have family in NYC so the Newark flight could be a good thing.</p>
<p>Glad to hear there is new competition in the air!!</p>
<p>Flying cheap, cheap, may get you a cheap, cheap pilot and cheap cheap maintained plane. 
just a guess. :p</p>
<p>New airlines might have a slight edge over older airlines at the moment because the older airlines hedged on expensive fuel (and lost) and newer airlines can take advantage of lower oil prices.</p>
<p>Longprime, that issue concerns me, too, although I don’t find it funny. After listening to the NTSB hearings surrounding the crash earlier this year in Buffalo, I’m convinced that the ever increasing desire for the absolute cheapest flights is not a good thing. I don’t want to be flying on a plane where the pilot and co-pilot are being paid $20,000/yr. or thereabouts, and where the number of hours flown and training requirements are less than they’d be on the major airlines.</p>
<p>^^I agree 100%.</p>
<p>I don’t see a huge problem. The real moneymakers for the large airlines are the international and long-distance flights, and this is where you need the experienced pilots. Let the budget airlines take care of small domestic flights. Much of a normal flight consists of autopilot anyway.</p>
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<p>I’m a noted Southwest Airlines lover (I realize they don’t have Southwest in Canada, but you could go to Buffalo), and actually did some research one time into the company to see how it is that they are able to offer such reasonable fares, and operate so successfully. One of their advantages is that all of their planes are the same. This minimizes the amount of training spent on flight crew. If you’ve flown one of their planes, you can fly any of them. </p>
<p>I’ve had a number of instances when I’ve been flying, and there was a delay for some reason (weather, maintenance, etc.). When the delay is long enough, the airline has to call in another crew, otherwise the working crew would work beyond their allowed hours. I’ve often wondered how deep their rosters go with flight crews familiar with each plane that each airline owns. With Southwest, I know that the plane I’m on is the only kind that every flight crew member has ever worked on, which makes me feel safer. Like I said, it’s one of the reasons they are cost efficient - less resources spent on training. When their planes land at whatever airport, it’s the same plane for the ground crew… again, no special training for different-sized planes. I think this also makes them more efficient with baggage handling, etc.</p>
<p>And yea, I know… they made a killing in fuel futures several years ago - a smart move. But they have no international flights as moneymakers, so they have to be efficient with all their domestic flights.</p>
<p>P3T - how is your congregation holding up these days? I’m sure your cantor’s presence is still very dearly missed.</p>
<p>^Thanks for asking, Teri. Everyone’s pulling together. We’re currently planning a Walk for Hunger in her memory on August 2, in conjunction with the Food Bank of Western New York. It’ll be a big multicultural event with many peoples represented. Hopefully it will feed many people.</p>
<p>Recently, Chuck Mangione did a benefit at the Buffalo Philharmonic to honor two of his musicians who perished on the same crash, scheduled to play that weekend.</p>
<p>Many other efforts are ongoing, representing all 50 crash victims. Buffalo is a very unified town for peoples’ concerns in a pinch. It’s really heartwarming.</p>
<p>I would like to see CHANGE at the level of the NTSB’s recommendations. The next hearing at the FAA will be important, too. Above all, not to blame these two pilots but to seek understanding of how to improve training and preparation for all pilots of regional airlines. Large air companies contract out to regional airlines , but it can’t be that the profit margin is so tight so it comes out in pilot training and pay. </p>
<p>We can’t afford to do this to each other, as people depend upon regional airlines for so many flights. The training for unusual circumstances, such as using levers in icing conditions, requires in-situ hands-on training, not just classroom work. This will cost more, but it has to be worth it to train pilots for unusual circumstances.</p>
<p>I think the issue of sleep deprivation has to be dealt with. Airlines cant just put blinders on. If they are paying people 20K, then they need “sleep cocoons” (very tiny roons with just a bed) like I think they have at some foreign (japanese?) airports so the pilots have a place to sleep.</p>
<p>Sleep deprivation is an issue for 2 hour flights? :S</p>
<p>This new airline has a model similar to Skybus…which we LOVED. Unfortunately, they could not sustain operation when fuel costs escalated. It will be interesting to see how this new one plays out.</p>
<p>BRING BACK SKYBUS!!</p>
<p>Sleep deprivation is always an issue. Although your flight is only 2 hours, they do multiple flights a day. Our friend is a SWA pilot, his typical day is flying out of Raleigh @8 a.m., gets to Baltimore and starts his route. His route is usually to La Guardia, than to Texas and then out o the west coast (vegas or San Diego), so just because you are on for 2 hours, you might be on the last 2 hour flight of their day.</p>
<p>I am shocked that people think these salaries are something new, when this has been common place for decades. The 20K typically exists only for puddle jumpers, and those are also the least experienced pilots, i.e. not retired military pilots. Military pilots start off on the big planes and never get the puddle jumpers. However, their salary isn’t that great, about 35K for the 1st few years. They are known to have crash pads or sleep in the pilots lounge during their lay overs. Unfortunately that pilots story about flying from Seattle to her hub is not rare. We knew a SWA pilot that couldn’t get his 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice hub (Balt., FLA, TX) he had to fly from Raleigh to Arizona to start his day. Instead of getting a crash pad, he slept on the plane and started his flights @noon, he than had to do 8 hours, which was comical because he flew the jet back to Raleigh, slept at home and then started the day all over again.</p>
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<p>galoisien, </p>
<p>The co-pilot on the flight that crashed in Buffalo didn’t earn enough to live in the area where she was based - Newark, NJ - so she lived with her parents and commuted. Her parents live in Seattle! The issue of fatigue was a focus of the NTSB hearings. The night before her plane crashed, she had commuted overnight from Seattle on a flight where connections were necessary, to Newark. She was also ill at the time with a cold.</p>
<p>The pilot, also based in Newark, lives in Florida and commutes. It is thought that he slept in the crew room at the airport, which is against the rules. It is known that he was on the computer in that crew room in the middle of that night. This apparently was/is common with this regional airline’s pilots. Approximately 90 of its 130 pilots live far away and must commute like this, by air.</p>
<p>Fatigue was only one main factor discussed in the hearings. Procedures and training also seem to have played a part in this horrible tragedy. The flight recorder indicated that the pilot and co-pilot were chatting about things other than the flight during their descent, which is against policy, and also that they did not follow the proper procedures when they were faced with a stall warning. The horror that followed was preventable and until these issues are addressed, it’s only a matter of time until it happens again.</p>
<p>The reports of the hearings has been a big story here in the Buffalo/Toronto area. I recommend that you google it and read about the issues discussed. It’s frightening to anyone who does any flying. As paying3 said, improved training requirements for these regional airlines and a salary commensurate with their responsibility so that they can avoid these ridiculous commutes to work are essential. The public’s neverending demand for inexpensive fares is a part of this problem.</p>
<p>pima, it’s not a question of thinking these salaries are something new. It’s a matter of people being informed, and they obviously aren’t. We know several pilots, all with major airlines, and they earn excellent salaries. The regional airlines and how they pay their staff isn’t something we’ve ever discussed with them. The airlines certainly don’t make this public knowledge, neither the regional ones nor the major airlines who contract their flights out. I’m not sure what you consider a ‘puddle jumper’ but it’s not what I, nor probably the general public, would consider a two hour flight to be.</p>
<p>The problem with raising the salary is it will have a domino effect regarding not only the major carriers, but also companies like Fedex, DHL and UPS. These guys don’t care whether they are flying people or boxes it is all about flying and the best paycheck or line number. I could tell you that Bullet and I know at least 20 commercial pilots, some wanted a certain airline (United, SWA, NWA) some couldn’t care less and the hub or line number meant more. If you raise the puddle jumper pilots, than the major airline would have to increase their salary, and they won’t want to do it.</p>
<p>Not many people realize that the new co- pilots even on 747’s are making @40K, they will not hit the 100K marker for yrs, and I mean yrs, @8. This is why the military pilots retire at 20, because their lifestyle does not change if they go commericial, since they have 50% of their military pay and making 40K will keep them close to what they were making as an Active Duty military member. Very few military members are leaving now at the 8 yr marker, b/c it is too big of a financial hit, and usually at that time, they are married with little ones and need the safety of a paycheck.</p>
<p>I also agree, I don’t know anyone who is hubbed near where they live when they originally join, because their line number is too low to get the “good” hubs. We had a friend who flew United, lived in Colorado Springs (right outside of Denver), but had to fly to San Fran to start his work day. We have a Continental pilot that lives in NC, but has to fly to Newark to start his day. One that lives in Anchorage, but has to fly to Seattle for Fedex. One in Memphis but flies to MI for Northwest. I could go on and on. I only know one that works for JetBlue, and is hubbed where he lives, but then again, he has been with them from day 1 in 99 so he has a high line number, but when he started he lived in NC and flew to NJ to start his day. They moved to FLA when he finally was making enough money to move. For him, he left the AF at the 12 yr marker, had to sell his prized possesion (a corvette) just to keep paying the bills, and his wife had to go back to work for about 4 yrs to make ends meet.</p>
<p>Not to freak you out, but the next time you are taking a 2 hour flight, you should probably realize that they might be flying their last 2 hour flight of the day. Here’s a little tidbit, have you ever spent an eternity circling an air port and the pilot comes on and says we have to divert to this other airport? Sometimes they have o divert, not because of running low on fuel, but the pilots will bust crew rest! There are mandates on how many hours a day they can fly and how many hours of rest they need between the days. If the airline knows that they are both suppose to fly the next day or are about to bust crew rest, they will divert them. Airlines are regulated and fined if the pilots bust rest, and it isn’t a small amount it is in the tens of thousands, plus the liability costs if they crashed and found to have busted crew rest would bankrupt them.</p>
<p>ALSO what should frighten you more is that some airlines are hiring mechanics in the US that can not only not speak English, but read it or write it! This is fine if you are in Spain, but all of the reports/manuals in the US are in English.</p>
<p>Finally you can always tell a Navy pilot or an AF pilot. The next time you fly see if when he/she lands the plane immediately on the runway and taxi forever to get to the gate, then they are NAVY. If they take forever to get down, but are at the gate immediately they are AF. Navy pilots are use to having very short runways, not so much for the AF. As I meet the Captain when we leave I always say either Navy or AF. Have yet to be wrong, but the quizzical look on the faces of how did she know is priceless and that makes me giggle!</p>
<p>O.K. Now I’m not feeling so great about the tickets I bought yesterday.</p>
<p>Don’t feel that way, remember they have families to get home to also and safely landing is their only way to do that.</p>
<p>Any new airline the risk is that they aren’t around by the time your three-month-in-advance ticket is the next day. Maybe that doesn’t matter if the ticket cost is a disposable $29 but a lot of people don’t have the free time to risk in changing plans.</p>