<p>How are you gonna respond to that list of states with gun deaths. It’s pretty consistent.
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<p>Stop reading NRA talking points. Most guns that criminals own were purchased legally at some time.</p>
<p>I am still waiting for Raimus who said places with LEAST restrictive gun ownership laws are LESS Violent. The comparision with England or even within the states of the United States does not hold up well.</p>
<p>Someone here made cracks about Harlem and Compton which are in New York and California respectively. They are #30 and #46 respectively. It’s all those gung-ho states on the top of the list, but don’t let facts get in the way of talking.</p>
<p>Failed logic I see. You think that if guns were legalized in the classroom that large amounts of people would begin to bring them? How many 18-22 yr olds own guns as it is, let alone would bring them into a classroom if allowed? The only people who will be bringing guns into classrooms on a regular basis are those that are both trained and knowledgable about the gun. You think that just because someone <em>can</em> bring a gun into a classroom they, after never touching a gun, will go out and buy one just to use this right? </p>
<p>To add to ChristCorps point…didn’t somebody recently shoot up a school in Israel, only to be taken down by a student with a gun? </p>
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<p>There couldn’t possibly be any other factors that contribute to this list right? What’s the saying? Liars, damn liars, and statistics? Many of those states low on the list have very liberal gun laws (nh, mn, wi, ia, sd, nd) while the #1 “rank” belongs to DC (which has banned guns!).</p>
<p>wow you think that all gun carries are trained and knowledgable…and if the person who did the shooting up didn’t have a gun, it wouldnt be necessary for a student to carry one</p>
<p>guess some think we should all have guns and that everyone that does have one is a good shoot</p>
<p>“banned” doesn’t mean people don’t have them and the gun ban never really took hold because the gun lobbyiest fought it tooth and nail</p>
<p>and you know who backs most of the progun laws…the money is gun manufacturers, the same ones who send guns over the internet to mass murderers and claim, not our fault</p>
<p>Doesn’t Canada have higher gun ownership rates per capita than the US? And their gun crime is nowhere near ours. Same with Switzerland, as someone else said earlier.</p>
[quote]
There couldn’t possibly be any other factors that contribute to this list right? What’s the saying? Liars, damn liars, and statistics? Many of those states low on the list have very liberal gun laws i/quote]</p>
<p>If you look at the states, there’s a noticeable trend. Of course you can quickly throw out it because it doesn’t fit with your preconceptions.</p>
<p>Or how about comparing the US vs. UK for that matter…</p>
No faulty logic. More guns can mean more accidents, just as more cars on the road may lead to more accidents. IMO, the risk of guns in the classroom on a routine basis outweighs the risk of some crazed shooter. There was a thread a year or so ago about the number of students who want to carry guns onto campus for protection. I think it is a bad idea, and if allowed, I do think some students would do it.</p>
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Uh, no. Many people already have gun permits and/or concealed weapons permits. These are people who already have handled guns, not people who have no intention of ever touching one. When is this nonsense going to end? If people can take guns into classrooms, how about theaters, taxis, wherever. Makes no sense to me. The risk of accidents goes up, IMO. Drop your bookbag- forgot to put the safety on? Oops so sorry I shot the person sitting next to me.</p>
<p>The more guns, the more potential for accidental shootings even if the gun owner or handler is experienced.</p>
<p>"MORLEY (WATE) – The Campbell County Sheriff’s Department is investigating the accidental shooting of a 12-year-old girl on Monday.</p>
<p>Detective Don Farmer says a group of people were camping in a mountainous area of the Morley community when they went for target practice near the campsite</p>
<p>That’s when a 20 gauge shotgun discharged and the buckshot hit Rebecca Hightower in the arm, according to her mother, Val Snyder.</p>
<p>OKLAHOMA CITY – A little target practice was too hot for an Oklahoma woman to handle.
The woman accidentally shot herself on Wednesday, police said.
Police said Anna Herrera-Gomez was practicing with a 9 mm gun at the H&H Gun Range in Oklahoma City when a hot shell casing fell down the front of her shirt.
She jumped as the hot metal touched her skin and reached for her chest. Police said that’s when she accidentally shot herself in the leg.
[Woman</a> Accidentally Shoots Self At Gun Range - News Story - WEWS Cleveland](<a href=“http://www.newsnet5.com/news/10622534/detail.html]Woman”>http://www.newsnet5.com/news/10622534/detail.html)</p>
<p>64-year-old Littleton man was leaving the Tanner Gun Show this afternoon when he accidentally shot himself in the stomach with a .38 caliber handgun, sustaining non-fatal injuries, according to the Adams County Sheriff’s Department.
Richard Steven Brown had just left the gun show at the Denver Merchandise Mart and was in his vehicle when the handgun accidentally discharged. There was no information in the incident report about whether Brown had just purchased the gun or why it was loaded, according to Sgt. Candi Baker, a department spokesperson.
<a href=“Man accidentally shoots self leaving gun show – The Denver Post”>Man accidentally shoots self leaving gun show – The Denver Post;
<p>I’ve got it figured out, NSM. Its all a ploy by the med schools and the insurance companies to drum up more business. More guns, shootings, more need. So clever.</p>
cracked me up. It probably wasn’t supposed to be funny, but you have a gift for turning a phrase!! So this person, the lady in Texas who ran over her philandering H with their mercedes, and a few others, chose to use their vehicles as weapons. This is the exception, not the rule. No one said guns should be “outlawed”, just controlled. If cars were being used primarily as weapons, I’d agree to stricter regulations too. And, we have titles to own, and licenses/permits to drive our vehicles. Other vehicles, with differing levels of risk/safety (motorycles, busses, etc) require different licenses and training. So, the next time I plan to kill a bunch of people, I’ll pull my schoolbus out from under my trenchcoat, start up the engine and lumber it over a few people who didn’t meander out of the way while I was starting her up. Great analogy.</p>
<p>Look; when it comes to guns and people, there are only 2 ways to handle the law. One way is to find a way to stop people from doing illegal things such as robbery, murder, etc… with a gun. ANY SUGGESTION? There’s just as much crime out there even with very restrictive gun laws. The second thing is to make to law abiding citizens can have the means to protect themselves. That is the most logical. While some believe that the police’s job is to “Protect and serve”; that isn’t quite accurate. A police’s job is reactive; not proactive. They come to the situation AFTER the crime has happened. Very rarely are they able to prevent crimes. Because of that, it is the individual’s responsibility to protect themselves. </p>
<p>Look at the sarasota county murder recently. A 9 minute 911 call and no police were even dispatched. Believe what you want, but I believe that all citizens should be ENCOURAGED to have a firearm for protection. I have no problem with mandating proper training, but I would encourage all citizens to have a firearm. Imagine the carjacker, breaking and entering, rapist, mugger, etc… all knowing that if they attempt to violate an individual that there’s a 95% chance that they will have a gun used on them. With proper training and holding people responsible, accidents wouldn’t be such an issue. My 12 year old would not shoot her arm off with a shotgun because my 12 year old wouldn’t be touching any of my guns. Then again, I know how to TEACH my children right/wrong.</p>
<p>^^ So, if I decide to take my shotgun to work, leaving it locked in my trunk unloaded, because I want to stop after work at the skeet shooting range that’s near work - I’m “staggeringly stupid” ???</p>
<p>Of course not. But if you took your loaded weapon into your work place and just stuck it in a drawer (just in case:rolleyes:), that would be stupid. If all your co-workers did likewise, it doesn’t take much to imagine a scenario whereby workplace tensions could quickly escalate into impromptu workplace shootings. More than at any point in our history, basic judgment is showing itself to be an ever less common commodity.</p>
<p>Well, considering the law doesn’t have anything in it about that, I don’t understand the complaint. The law allows you to have it in your car on private property (You work). Don’t know why it still keeps being brought up about taking it to work.</p>
Alright, based on 2004 US Census Bureau information, the 5 states with the lowest per capita rates of violent crime in the nation are ALL “shall issue” CCW states (ND, ME, VT, NH, SD). Vermont (the third best, in '04) has no state level gun control. Four of the five allow unrestricted open carry (North Dakota being the exception). On the list that garland supplied (which is close to but not the same as the CDC info based on 1999 and later, which I use) Four of the ten states with the least per capita gun deaths (via garland’s list) are also “Shall Issue” states. All four also allow open carry, with MN requiring a permit.</p>
<p>I will agree with LaxAttack that there are many variables that contribute to violence rates, which have not been discussed here.</p>
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I know of no one who believes this, nor have I ever claimed this.</p>
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In the case of college students, this is one of the most commonly used arguments. However, in ALL violent crime (not just where the criminal uses a firearm), the percentage of harmed victims is lowest among those who resisted with firearms. </p>
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The inset quote is true. The National Academy of Sciences did a mutli-year research project that concluded just that. Note: the majority of head researchers were pro gun-control at the start of the project.
Of course most guns were purchased legally at one point…the same is true of almost all illegal goods (illicit drugs being the notable exception).</p>
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You do realize that all businesses that sell guns online must ship the firearm to a federally licensed dealer and undergo the same background checks as similar firearm sold at any licensed dealer (aka stores)…don’t you?</p>
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Cultural shifts aren’t really my specialty…sorry.
Well, if those crack dealers follow the law (not that that’s very likely), they must leave the firearm locked in the car…
I suspect that most drug dealers who carry firearms do so illegally anyway…</p>
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That is a reasonable fear, but not one that has been bourne out in any modern incident that I am aware of…and considering the implications it would have on legal CCW, I’m fairly sure it would have been BIG news, had it happened. Beyond that, is the alternative any more attractive??? I would say disarming people because they might miss is not preferable to letting the shooter have free reign for several minutes (in all the mass shootings I know of, the police have never actually intervened in time to stop the shooter).</p>
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A valid concern, but in the over 60 combined semesters where CCW on campus is legal, there have been zero incidents related to improper use by concealed weapons permit holder.</p>
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Actually, you have that backwards. Concealed carry is allowed in 48 states, carry (either open and/or concealed) is allowed in 49 states…so people already regularly carry in theaters, shopping malls, offices, taxis, etc. Schools, most all colleges, airports, federal buildings, illinois, and DC are where guns carried by private citizens are almost always banned. Nearly everywhere else is legal, as long as one follows the proper permit regulations.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, negligent discharges are, sadly, a fact of life…much similar to pool drownings (except pool drownings are more common than deaths from negligent discharges, IIRC).</p>
<p>Poetsheart, yes sticking a firearm in an office drawer would be rather foolish, as the owner does not have positive control over the firearm, as soon as they move to a different area. This leaves the possibility open for an unstable person to get a hold of it (or more likely, a person who does not understand the firearm’s operation–thus is likely to mishandle it).</p>
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<p>I’ll be using the numbers generated by the CDC after 1999 for mortality reports based on crime, guns, legal deaths, etc. This report generator can be found at [Injury</a> Mortality Reports](<a href=“http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html]Injury”>WISQARS (Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System) | Injury Center | CDC)
I found it from an official link on the CDC website, so I trust its accuracy.<br>
Much of the firearms statistics I use are based on the FBI’s reports and research conducted by the National Academy of Sciences, Dr. Gary Klenk, and Dr. John Lott, jr. If you have specific questions about a source, please ask and give me time to find it.</p>