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<p>Bingo again, Anxiousmom.</p>
<p>I totally agree that part of the problem is probably classroom mgt. It is rather unlikely that all 7 of the troublesome kids have problems needing classification, unless they purposely dumped them all on the “new” teacher. I’m not saying that couldn’t happen either…</p>
<p>I subbed for a while and some days I just had a better handle on the kids. Some days I met them all at the door and had more of a plan. Some classes the teachers had a set discipline plan, be it names on the board with check marks (could be for reward or discipline) some had a “card system”… Red, yellow, green. Red generally meant no recess or maybe a trip to pricnciple or a note home. Kids were told to go “pull a card” when they misbehaved, and maybe there were 2 greens and 2 yellows before the red was exposed.</p>
<p>One thing I learned as a parent and a sub… FOLLOW THRU is crucial. (failed that a little in both roles I confess…a bit of a pushover). Your friend CANNOT be a pushover, and she is their teacher not their friend. Some better classroom mgt techniques may help a lot.</p>
<p>I have a young friend who is subbing. It is going basically well, but she had one class that sounds like the one here. There was fight as soon as the kids got in the room, 6 fights thru the day. The good kids were crying because the(useless) principal threatened to call all the parents and they thought their parents would be called (think principal trying to use peer pressure to keep baddies in line. He should have taken the kids out for a little office time)</p>
<p>Here’s the thing…it wasn’t just the kids…they weren’t necessarily problems because the good kids said…THEY NEVER ACT LIKE THIS WHEN MR. SO-AND-SO IS HERE. I think they were 4th grade. </p>
<p>He knew how to control them but the poor sub didn’t. Your friend just hasn’t figured it out yet. </p>
<p>Also, I subbed with a first year teacher in Resource room. She said she went home and cried every night (and she didn’t even have a full class!)</p>
<p>Did your friend sub? I think that is a very valuable learning tool and all teachers should do it for at least half a year. You can learn different classroom mgt techniques etc. My young friend is coming to realize that what she thought she wanted to do is not what she wants after all (regarding grade, specialty etc) </p>
<p>Good luck. Maybe after the break she can go in with some new discipline procedures. She can do some reading and research and when school starts she should re-arrange the room. Separate the trouble so they aren’t near each other each other(hopefully without clear sight of each other). Meet them at the door. Make a poster of the rules/consequence and start off as all business. The good kids will appreciate it if changes occur though they might grumble at first. DO NOT seat them at “tables” of desks. I always hated that. Just asking for chitchat and touching.</p>
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<p>Agreed and I’d add myself to that number and tip my hat to the K-12 teachers.</p>
<p>Okay, I understand how hard it is to teach 31 kids, but I don’t think anyone here would dispute that not everyone is cut out to be a teacher. It takes unique skills and specific personal qualities that not everyone possesses. I don’t know the OP’s sister but it not beyond the range of possibilities that she has chosen the wrong career.</p>
<p>I would venture to say there are probably too many people teaching in our schools who should be doing something else.</p>
<p>Actually, I would rather get rid of some of the top heavy administration, before I fired a teacher.
Although, I have seen teachers who were burnt out, but experienced and were hanging on till retirement. But they probably shouldn’t have been in the classroom everyday.
Both my kids are in the field. My oldest earned a bio degree and then went to grad school for her MAT. She was part of a few small group of teachers who had hands on practicum for two years as full time teachers at a k-8 school. ( they team taught, so they all had mentors)</p>
<p>I dont expect all teachers to have two full time years in the classroom before they get their certificate, but they could spend time every qtr and perhaps be an apprentice teacher as part of earning a certificate instead of just taking a test.
I think we need to find more ways to support new teachers so they are retained, rather than have more hurdles for them to jump.( like judging them by how their students test)</p>
<p>Wen my youngest was in third gd, she had an uber experienced teacher. I thought he was amazingly organized and knowledgable, but she remembers him as mean. However, that year she also changed from a tiny k-5 private school, to a public k-12. Her 3rd grade classroom had more students than her previous school!</p>
<p>I dont know if I would consider him mean, but he also was one of the few teachers who took on student teachers every year, and actually had them run the classroom, instead of just doing busywork. It takes a lot of energy and focus to mentor a teacher, and I dont know if teachers are paid any more to do so. I kinda doubt it, although they do get a stipend for attending meetings and such.</p>
<p>Something i loved about the K-12 school is that high school students ( or middle school) acted as mentors for the grade school kids. When D was herself a mentor ( she stayed there through middle school), I know she really got a lot out of it.
I think some schools are too isolated in how they are run. It could be very valuable for cross age teachers to share their experiences and insights.</p>
<p>Sounds to me that your sister needs a lot of help with Classroom Management. Getting the kids to focus on learning, rather than how much they can get away with, will change the whole dynamic of the room. But it’s a skill that few brand-new teachers have intuitively, and with 31 students in an urban setting, she’s in an especially difficult environment. I really hope she can utilize the mentor. </p>
<p>Here’s a terrific book you might want to share with your sister. Teach like a Champion by Doug Lemov. It offers lots of good points and shows you explicit techniques that make a difference.</p>
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Great advice, njfootballmom. </p>
<p>I shared this thread with my two daughters who have taught in underfunded urban schools. They both pointed out that, during the holidays, the OP’s sister has at least a week in which to reinvent herself - a great opportunity to introduce new expectations. They also suggested that, if there’s no positive reinforcement system in place for discipline, the teacher should look for one she thinks would work and implement it when she gets back.</p>
<p>They both liked systems in which the class had to work together for rewards - pizza for lunch on Friday if the class amassed enough points over the week, for instance (and of course the teacher buys the pizza herself, but it’s worth it) - something the entire class can be excited about. Points were awarded for every subject period in which there was no outburst. The students applied peer pressure to the kids with behavior issues.</p>
<p>Another suggestion one had was NOT to raise her voice to regain control - instead, speak softly to make kids listen. The one who taught 1st grade would stand near a cooperative student and quietly say, “If you can hear me, clap three times.” When one kid clapped, the rest of the class would tune in to it, and every time the command was repeated (softly), more kids would clap and be paying attention. </p>
<p>I have to go back to the fact that the contract for New York City teachers specifies a class size limit of 32 students for 1st-6th graders, and that almost half of public schools there exceed that limit. <a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost; That is simply nuts. (And also makes me wonder about the supposed power of teacher unions if that’s what they had to agree to.) The OP hasn’t said that her sister teaches in NYC. But clearly the sister can’t be the only teacher struggling to maintain order under those conditions. I couldn’t do it, so hats off to those who try.</p>
<p>I’m truly sorry for all the new teachers out there who find that they’ve only been taught to teach and there’s so much more to the job!</p>
<p>I’d suggest she learn as much as she can about the kids who are a problem, keeping Maslov in mind. Are they fed, are they tired, are they safe at home? If they need attention, give it to them before they misbehave. I know it feels like rewarding bad behavior, but being the nicest to the kids you like the least is sometimes part of the job (and yes, admit you just don’t like some of the little buggers!).</p>
<p>And although she will keep trying (and there are many good suggestions on this thread), you do have to admit you can’t solve all of everybody’s problems. Decide what you can do to teach all the kids and realize you can’t MAKE someone learn. Do what you can to occupy the disruptors so the rest of the class can learn, refer them for extra help, and be prepared to take the blame for their test results. </p>
<p>Welcome to teaching!</p>
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<p>Exactly. But the teacher union’s job is to protect the teacher’s interests. Who’s looking out for the children’s interests? For me, class size is the number one factor, within our control, that will effect outcomes in the classroom. Others such as poverty, family situations etc. are out of our control. Having a manageable class size enables the teachers take these things into account and help to ameliorate the impact of these factors on the child’s ability to learn.</p>
<p>Away2school - for inspiration you should suggest your sister watch the made for TV movie “Beyond the Blackboard” It is about a new teacher who was assigned to teach at a homeless shelter. She had many frustrations, tears and finally some successes. The situation was extreme, but the messages and learnings are wonderful.</p>
<p>The problem with movies about heroic teachers is that they are, well, movies. If anything they leave real life teachers feeling a inadequate (or laughing). Managing a classroom with 32 kids, many of them having deep challenges isn’t the same as what goes on in hollywood. There are days when there are no neat resolutions, poignant moments or brilliant realizations on the part of the students. It is hard, physical, emotionally draining work that requires tenacity and a willingness to stick with it even when you get little or no support from administrators parents, the public or the government. </p>
<p>Movies about teachers would lead you to believe that teachers are admired and held in esteem and valued for what they contribute. This is becoming less true everyday. By the end of the year, I will be required to be finger printed and processed by the FBI in order to retain my license. I have to pay for that out of pocket.</p>
<p>Our discussion here is timely. See today’s article in NYTimes on class sizes, post-recession.</p>
<p>It documents the issue across the country, and not just in urban areas. </p>
<p><a href=“Subtract Teachers, Add Pupils: Math of Today’s Jammed Schools - The New York Times”>Subtract Teachers, Add Pupils: Math of Today’s Jammed Schools - The New York Times;
<p>EPTR, both my DH and DS were required get fingerprinted and background check for SUBSTITUTE teaching.
This is going back 8-10 years now and they also had to pay out of pocket.</p>
<p>Not saying right or wrong, just nothing new around here.</p>
<p>Our district fingerprints & background checks volunteers. I thought that was standard for people who will be working around children, it certainly should be.</p>
<p>Daughter got fingerprinted and background-checked before she signed her teaching contract. She paid for it herself and never thought twice about it.</p>
<p>My son did the same though not for a teaching job. He never questioned it either.</p>
<p>I also think it’s fairly standard.</p>
<p>I have been fingerprinted twice and my records run through the state police database. At my expense. All for a $75 a day substitute position.</p>
<p>We have always been CORI checked but the fingerprinting is new. I think it is unreasonable to expect the employee to pay for this. The onus should be on the employer.</p>
<p>Anyway, didn’t mean to derail the thread.</p>
<p>I was fingerprinted and checked, at my expense, after an INTERVIEW-before even being offered a job in dealing with children 16 years ago. My H had to do it to chaperone at D’s school, also at his expense. I suspect individuals are the ones paying to weed out those who know they might not pass.</p>
<p>As for the OP-I am not a teacher, but having had three kids go to a dozen different schools over the years and having a niece who teachers, I can say this for certain-you can take the same kids and put them in with an experienced or well-trained teacher and they will behave very differently than with a teacher who does not manage well. The OP’s sister needs to learn-as several have suggested-ways to manage her class. I also have seen district budgets dry up and classroom aides going away as class sizes increase. It’s backwards from what SHOULD be happening, but it is, and I suspect less that new teachers aren’t FORBIDDEN to have aides so much as there not being aides in the first place because of budgets.</p>
<p>When we were touring schools for kindergarten, we saw something that struck me and has stayed with me ever since. ALL of these schools were in the low income part of town, so “urban” would fit the description. At one school there were two kindy classes side by side, both overstuffed with too many kids. I’m not even sure one was originally a classroom it was so full. The kids were sitting practically on top of each other.</p>
<p>In one room a young teacher had clearly lost control of the class-they were running around, climbing on desks, shouting, certainly NOT learning. The teacher was standing there lost. Next door in the tiny room, it was almost silent as the kids read or worked on an assignment. The teacher was having one child at a time read to her. No one was acting out, and she didn’t even look up that often. At one point a boy started fussing at his seatmate and the teacher looked up. “John,” was all she said. John immediately went back to his work.</p>
<p>Obviously Teacher #2 had learned how to run a classroom. It’s not something you “know”, you have to learn, and OP’s sister has not. But hopefully her mentor can help. I have a family friend who advises new teachers outside of school. If the sister was local, I could find out how that is set up. Our friend (I’ve seen her in action) can keep a whole passel of rowdy little kids quiet. She used to help out one of D’s teachers-another newbie who had kids running roughshod all over her.</p>
<p>It sure wouldn’t hurt for class sizes to shrink though.</p>
<p>Thanks so much everyone. I told my sister about this thread and she wants to read it but has very little time to study new techniques as she is constantly preparing for classroom activities and lesson plans. </p>
<p>Would anyone be able to highlight and briefly explain particularly helpful techniques that she could quickly institute to change things around in her class?</p>
<p>Sseamom; I agree for the most part with what you have said, but also know, unfortunately, what can happen if you have just ONE or two too many of the extremely needy/disturbed/autistic/oppositionally defiant kids. With no Aide to intervene and provide the needed attention or temporary removal of the disruptive child(ren) even the best managed classes can fall apart. There is definitely a 'tipping factor"!</p>