New to this. What do you make of it?

Parents Forum
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<p>If a kid scored very high in PSAT and have very outstanding SAT I and SAT II scores which includes several perfect scores of 800? Is it normal to get emails from elite college coaches? We have received many email and not sure how to respond to it. Kid participates in many sports including high school football.</p>

<p>In addition if teachers and counselors in a very renowned high school start asking where the kid will go? How do you respond to it? We certainly have no idea as we are looking for money. What will be an appropriate answer, as we need financial aid more than anything?</p>

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<p>“If a kid scored very high in PSAT and have very outstanding SAT I and SAT II scores which includes several perfect scores of 800? Is it normal to get emails from elite college coaches? We have received many email and not sure how to respond to it. Kid participates in many sports including high school football.”</p>

<p>I am not an expert on athletic admissions. However, I do know that it’s extremely hard for top colleges to find applicants who can not only play football, but also have the stats and curricula indicating they would be able to graduate from elite colleges. Keep in mind, though, that getting encouragement from a coach doesn’t mean that acceptance is a sure thing.</p>

<p>When teachers ask wehre your kid will go say, "He won’t know until next May. What places do you suggest that he consider?</p>

<p>Not only is money a factor, but when it comes to elite colleges. simply getting in is a huge factor, probably more important than is the money since most of those colleges promise to meet 100% of documented financial need. Some even have exceptionally good packages for families making less than $45,000-$60,000 a year.</p>

<p>Since your S is an athlete with high scores, you may get comments from uninformed, but well-meaning people who assume he’s a shoo-in everywhere. When you or he get such comments just respond by saying, “College admissions now is more competitive than ever, so he won’t count on anything until he gets an acceptance in hand and we know that we can afford the college.”</p>

<p>Make sure, too, that he applies to at least one safety that he knows he’ll get accepted to, you know you can afford, and he knows that he would enjoy.</p>

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<p>Tell them that you’ve been hanging out on CC and saw enough perfect 800 scoring kids getting rejected this year, so you’re not counting on anything. </p>

<p>If the high school is used to sending kids to elite schools, they should know better than to ask you where your kid is “going” to go. WHat they should ask is where he <em>wants</em> to go, and then they should offer suggestions on comparable schools so that he has a nice list of reasonable options. </p>

<p>The better high schools know better than to assume anything.</p>

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<p>The NCAA has very specific guidelines for coaches contacting recruits. I suggest you check their website for more information.</p>

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<p>I can tell you in my son’s sport that the coaches do not track academic and test score stats on their recruits. Also, as Fireflyscout brings up, there are guidelines on recruiting and to run afoul of them can jeopardize not only a chance at an athletic scholarship, but can get a school and athletic department, and coach in trouble. I don’t think you are even permitted to contact the kid directly for a college sport (NCAA rules) until after junior year. So I am not sure what kind of contact your kid has been getting since every coach I have met is well aware of the rules. Now general info about the school, camps they may hold, workshops are permitted. My son got mailings from athletic programs with that sort of general info early in the process, but so did any kid at his level of the sport even with poor academic stats.</p>

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<p>Let me clarify few things. He plays varsity football and good at it, but he is not a kind of a player who will be recruited. He would like to go a school where he can learn and grow socially and mentally and can still play sports. He thinks that sports and education allow him to be mentally and physically fit.</p>

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<p>Then he should consider an Ivy or a Patriot League school–but his athletic abilitities will not be esp. helpful unless he is able to play at the varsity level (it will just be another EC). If he can play on the team, the Ivies are permitted to admit as low as two standard deviations from their average. Harvard, for example, has (caucasian) basketball and football players coming in this year whose SAT’s are well below 1200. It all depends on the Academic Index, and the balancing of rank/gpa with standardized scores. The better the athlete, of course, the greater the admission likelihood.</p>

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<p>The fact that he plays football and has 800 scores, though, could help tip him into a top college. That’s because many of the students who apply to places like H with 800 scores have not played football. If they played sports, the sports were things like swimming, golf and tennis.</p>

<p>In addition to fielding its varsity football team, Harvard also has many club football teams that need members. Each Harvard house (dorm) has a team, for example.</p>

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<p>I agree, and this is so throughout the league. A “major” sport can make the difference, if only (in part) for diversity’s sake.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom:</p>

<p>My son thinks about Ivys but it is beyond our reach. Honestly even if admitted we do not know how to pay for Ivy League as my family barely makes after taxes that their annual tuitions are. </p>

<p>We are hoping that some professor will give my son a work in his lab. My son is doing research in biochemistry with a noble laureate in order to earn some money. This may allow him to defray his tuition cost. We are more looking for school, which can give us a merit aid, as we need financial aid in order to go to college. </p>

<p>As I see more parents having problems with $$$$ for tution we just do not feel comforatble that somehow everything will work out.</p>

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<p>Please see the link I posted on another thread. ALL Harvard students whose parents make under $40,000 and all Yale students whose parents make under $45,000 get a total free ride, including books, everything. Nearly 400 Harvard students whose parents make over $150,000 get financial aid, and nearly 1400 students whose parents make over $100,000 get financial aid. It is less expensive to go to an Ivy for almost everyone than to go to the local state university. Don’t let the apparent cost deter you!</p>

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<p>Are there any colleges, which have good economics program and not that, expansive? It will be better if school offer some kind of merit aid, as we need help in money. Washington University at St. Louis is that a good school because they do mention in their brochure that they offer some money to middle class kids. My kid has taken 5 APs so far till this junior year includes all maths and science APs and one in world history. We are going to meet our guidance counselor this week. What are the schools in patriot’s league?</p>

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<p>In general, the very top schools --HPYS and similar ones - are the most generous in the country when it comes to financial aid. They have huge endowments, something that virtually all state universities do not have. </p>

<p>Over the past couple of years, many of the Ivies and top liberal arts colleges have started emphasizing attracting a more econmically diverse student body. This means trying to attract more low income students. Several top colleges have revamped their financial aid packages to make their colleges more attractive to low income students of all races.</p>

<p>Due to the fact that most low income students go to poor quality schools (because schools are funded mainly through property taxes), it is hard for top colleges to find low income students with the academic prep to survive at a place like an Ivy. Your son’s SAT scores indicate he would be a very desireable candidate. </p>

<p>If you are very low income, Havard could be cheaper than sending your child to your state flagship.</p>

<p>"
Harvard’s financial aid program next year will be the most generous in its history, with $84.6 million in scholarships for undergraduates, a 56 percent increase over the past six years. Two-thirds of Harvard undergraduates receive some form of financial aid, including scholarships, loans, and jobs. The average total student aid package will be close to $30,000. " <a href=“http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/05.12/01-yield.html[/url]”>http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/05.12/01-yield.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>and</p>

<p>"More low-income students than ever before will enter Harvard Yard as freshmen next fall, in what administrators are hailing as a promising sign for the College’s recent financial aid reforms. </p>

<p>Students from families earning annual incomes under $60,000 will comprise nearly 18 percent of the Class of 2009, according to Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid William R. Fitzsimmons ’67. In previous years, the figure has hovered around 15 percent. </p>

<p>The increase comes after a year of heavy recruiting by Byerly Hall to attract low-income students to the College. The Class of 2009 is the second class to benefit from the Harvard Financial Aid Initiative (HFAI), which cuts costs for low-income families.</p>

<p>“It’s just a resounding success,” Fitzsimmons said. </p>

<p>Under the new program, parental contributions are waived for families earning under $40,000 a year, and families with incomes between $40,000 and $60,000 have their contributions reduced."<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=507733”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=507733&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Patriot League is as expensive as Ivies, includes Colgate, Bucknell, Lehigh, American, Holy Cross and Lafayette, as well as Army and Navy (which are, of course, free).</p>

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<p>We are around $65,000 before taxes. You mean the these school gives scholarships to kids with income around $65000. Wow. hmm I wonder if our school counselors knows about it. Why are they so generous?</p>

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<p>Dear Redstar,</p>

<p>It sounds as if your son would be eligible for need-based aid and merit-based aid. Most top echelon schools say that they have “need blind” admissions policies. After they accept the students they want, they determine the level of financial need. I believe that most Ivies (which do not give merit aid, but have many, I believe at some even a majority of students receiving some level of financial aid) and many other top schools state that they will meet the financial requirements of all admitted students. The schools will determine what your son’s financial requirements are based on your family’s economic situation. Many of these schools will also waive application fees, so that your son can apply to many excellent schools without financial hardship to your family. In short, if your son is admitted to top schools, it is very likely that at least some of those schools will provide him with the financial help he needs in order to attend.</p>

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<p>Because, as northstarmom writes, they want to make education available to as diverse an economic group as they can. Your son sounds like a great candidate for Harvard, Cornell, Dartmouth or any other Ivy. I know that NSM and certainly I am really hopeful that your son will apply and that he is successful. Too many people have your misperception that an Ivy education is out of reach. I had financial aid at Cornell, Harvard and Columbia and it made all the difference.</p>

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<p>Why are they generous?</p>

<p>Because those top colleges view an important aspect of a college education as students getting to interact with other bright students who come from a variety of backgrounds and have a variety of interests.</p>

<p>Something like 85% of Harvard’s applicants “qualify” for admission in that they have the academic background and scores indicating they have the ability to graduate from Harvard as do about 95% of studernts who enter Harvard. </p>

<p>The top colleges have the highest graduation rates in the country, tending to graduate from 89%-95% of the students who start at their colleges. Many public institutions and low ranked institutions graduate only about 40-60% of their students.</p>

<p>Anyway, class discussions, participation in extracurriculars, interactions with roommates, etc. all are considered extremely important parts of students’ college experiences, and places like Harvard have such an abundance of excellent applicants that the admissions offices have the luxury of making selections to build a well rounded class.</p>

<p>They want classes that include millionaire and celebrities offspring, students from rural areas, students from a variety of foreign countries, students from blue collar backgrounds, first generation college students, fifth generation Harvard legacies and students with passions for extracurriculars ranging from humor magazines to theater to polo playing and gospel singing.</p>

<p>Places like Harvard also view their institutions as preparing students to take leadership roles in various fields and locations. This includes students who may be in the Senate, president of a large corporation, and students who may be school principals or guidance counselors and those who may run nonprofit organizations serving various disadvantaged populations in remote areas.</p>

<p>The GCs who know this kind of info tend to be in the schools that have traditonally sent students to places like Ivies. GCs in low income schools usually don’t know this info. While Harvard admissions officers visit high schools around the country, for time reasons, they visit only places that are likely to send good applicants to Harvard.</p>

<p>Thus, a very weak high school who has one student every 4 years who might be Harvard material is not going to get a visit.</p>

<p>Although places like Harvard send tons of info to GCs across the country, understandably, the overworked GC at an impoverished school probably isn’t going to take much time reviewing info that s/he assumes would not apply to their students. There are too many pressing problems for such GCs to deal with – things like kids with parents in jail or families being evicted.</p>

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<p>We just attended a college fair where the Harvard rep said that Harvard has hundreds of students with family incomes over $125,000 receiving financial aid.</p>

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<p>Redstar,
Based on what you’ve posted about your son’s rare high combination of high scores and low income, your S has far better odds than do most of the Ivywannabe students whom you see posting on these boards. That’s because most of those Ivywannabes come from high income backgrounds, and the Ivies are flooded with applicants like them.</p>

<p>It will be very important, however, for you to stay on College Confidential because more than likely your S’s GC is not that knowledgeable about procedures in applying to top colleges. The GC may inadvertently give your S bad information.</p>

<p>The top colleges do understand that students from low income or weak schools lack the sophisticated GCsd that top prep and public schools have. However, you would not want your son to be hurt by things like uninformed advice from the GC, teachers or peers suggesting that your S not apply or suggesting that your S do something that would hurt his chances such as not taking the 3 SAT II tests that Harvard still requires.</p>

<p>One last thing: No one is suggesting that your son apply only to places like Harvard, that are reach schools for everyone.</p>

<p>My suggestion is that your S apply to places like Ivies, particularly ones like H and P that are particularly generous with their aid to low income families. Amherst is an LAC that has the same kind of generosity.</p>

<p>In addition, your S should apply to places that give excellent need-based aid and also are generous with their merit aid. Washington U, Duke, Emory and Vandy are all excellent colleges that have good need-based aid plus excellent merit aid. Those all are in the top 25 group of colleges.</p>

<p>In addition, your son should apply to some colleges where he knows he can afford and would get accepted and would thrive. For many top students, their state flagship fills the bill. That’s particularly true in states like Georgia and Florida, which have excellent, automatic merit aid for excellent in-state students. </p>

<p>I would imagine that your S’s guidance counselor would be a good source of info on this. You also can check the web sites of your state’s public institutions, and ask on CC for people’s experiences with those schools.</p>