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<p>Didn’t even say she was sorry? That would absolutely fry me. I would not be able to stop my self from saying “If you knew that we needed to sell very quickly, and you knew that 30% of these deals fall through, why in God’s name didn’t you keep marketing it???”</p>
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<p>“Specifying a short escrow” means specifying an early closing. (The escrow period runs from the time a written offer is accepted (signed) by the seller until the closing. “Closing” is short for “closing of escrow.”)</p>
<p>In and of itself, this signals to the buyer that things must move quickly.</p>
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<p>The initial offer needs to be in writing with a deposit. That is what puts the buyer on the hook-- if you were to accept the first offer (which could be a full price offer, as it was when I sold my mother’s house) the buyer must complete the purchase or risk losing his deposit. </p>
<p>If the offer is lower than what you are willing to accept, you counter-offer. (But you do not have to-- you always have the option of accepting it.)</p>
<p>When/if you counter-offer, this nullifies the buyer’s first offer. The buyer can walk away and get their deposit back. When they make a new offer, it nullifies your counter-offer (so you can walk away.) Each offer and counter-offer nullifies the offer before it, including not only the price but the other terms. </p>
<p>It is common for all negotiation after the initial offer to be over the phone. Buyer tells their agent their new offer, who tells it to your agent, who tells it to you. You reply through the same channels. When you reach a final agreement it is put in writing and signed by both parties. You have an attorney, so have him check it over before you sign.</p>
<p>But the initial offer must be in writing-- or no negotiating! A “buyer” who will not put an initial offer in writing is not a buyer. He is interested, but not a buyer, not yet.
Your “buyer” was never a buyer. That was the problem. He had no obligation.</p>
<p>Edit: I just read lookingforward’s posts above mine, written while I was still composing my reply. If that is the custom in NYS, then that is the custom. Here, we offer a written contract, then negotiate from there.</p>
<p>It seems to me that negotiating without a contract is risky for both the buyer and the seller. We have seen how it wasted the seller’s time in Dharma’s case; while the potential buyer is negotiating verbally sans contract, another buyer could swoop in and snatch the house. </p>
<p>CTMom, is that how it works in New York? I know that in California, the initial offer is a contract, legally binding, with money attached. But is that how it happens in New York? </p>
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<p>Exactly. A signature on an offer + a non refundable deposit = a serious buyer. </p>
<p>A short escrow simply means that you tell the buyer that you require closing within, say, 30 days of the contract. I don’t know how that’s done where you are, check with your lawyer.</p>
<p>CF, I don’t know about NY–we are in CT. When we bought and sold a house, and when I sold my Mom’s house in Florida, the contract came first.</p>
<p>When we saw the house we wanted, it had just gone on the market. We had been looking for a long time and didn’t want to lose this one, so we hurried up and gave our agent a contract. Negotiation was quick (over the phone) and the seller signed the final contract the following day.</p>
<p>When I sold my FIL’s house in CT in 2007, the first offer was in writing and negotioation afterward was over the phone until we reached an agreement. This took a couple of hours only, then we both signed the final contract.</p>
<p>When I sold my mother’s house in FL this year, the buyer paid full price-- we had a final contract the same day she saw the house.</p>
<p>I am having a hard time understanding why an eager buyer would want to wait so long to put their offer in writing when it means another buyer could come along and get the house by offering first.</p>
<p>My BIL, a realtor in NJ, reports that when he has a buyer, he writes up the boilerplate contract for the initial offer, and it’s a real written contract. I got the impression that written offers and counteroffers go back and forth, and then before the final contract is signed the lawyers see it. But the initial offer is a legal contract in writing, in his experience.</p>
<p>I can understand Dharma’s agent initially saying that the buyer was an eager buyer. But after ten days, continuing to say he was eager was a lie on its face. Eager buyers don’t wait ten days; that’s false by definition.</p>
<p>No, in NYS the initial offer is not accompanied by a check.</p>
<p>Then what keeps it from being frivolous?</p>
<p>If the initial offer is not accompanied by a check, then why on earth is the agent waving away other offers? </p>
<p>The clarity of web info hangs on who wrote it. You have to follow and distinguish between offer and when they mean the legal contract. And so many sites focus on apts, condos, coops. This is from the buyer’s perspective.</p>
<p>“Once you have an verbal acceptable offer (price & terms) with the seller, the buyer is generally expected to have inspections completed within 72 hours from the date of seller’s acceptance of offer. If you do not accept certain findings in the report, you may negotiate with the seller on which repairs should be performed and who should pay for those repairs.”</p>
<p>“When an offer is accepted by the seller, inspections are typically done at that time. However, be aware that the property can continue to be shown to other buyers, and a better offer can be entertained and accepted, with yours now being rejected. When inspections are finished, and any renegotiations completed, the seller will have their attorney draw up the sales contract and send it to your attorney, who will review it and make modifications to protect your interests. The buyer will sign the contract and return it with a deposit (typically 10% of the purchase price) to the seller’s attorney who will deposit the check in an escrow account. The seller will sign the contract, which will be sent back to your attorney. At that time this is considered a binding contract subject to any contingencies (financing, title, etc.)”</p>
<p>I’m surprised they say the seller’s atty draws up the contract- imo, we can get there later.
<a href=“Making The Offer | Real Estate Broker Tarrytown, NY | Buyer's Edge Realty”>http://www.buyersedgerealty.com/making-the-offer.html</a></p>
<p>And I believe the initial “offer” WAS in writing. Remember when the agent mentioned the details of his financing were included in the offer she presented to Mom? </p>
<p>Know the expression,“one step forward and two steps back?” This is all like one step forward, a couple of giant leaps forward, then a sanity check, then a giant leap back, then collective confusion.</p>
<p>I think someone suggested already that Dharma run her ideas past the thread in order to get that feedback, first.</p>
<p>Hmm, I just googled “Earnest Money Deposit New York State” and it does seem the customs vary from place to place even within the state. </p>
<p>All the more reason for getting multiple potential buyers and multiple offers. (And if it were me, I’d give more weight to an offer that came with a deposit.)</p>
<p>Hopefully now that the price has dropped by a good amount, the offers will come in. </p>
<p>While the real estate agent gets back to work selling the house, the move to AL will happen. As I understand, 2 months fees plus a deposit will be required, maybe $18-20K. Once mom is there, the AL can’t just kick her out, right? I understand a new fee must be paid every month, but believe the AL business office will protect their interests.</p>
<p>Dharma, you said you very bluntly directed your sister to take out a home equity loan. Is this really necessary? What is necessary is that the AL has a way to get paid, which they could do by putting a lien on the house if mom runs out of money before the house sells. It’s not a certainty that the money will run out before then, but if it does, it is the AL’s problem to get the money, not yours or your sister’s. They would gladly take your money if you fall all over yourselves to solve their problem for them, but you don’t have to do that. Or, if your sister just insists on paying the bills, she may have a way of doing that that she prefers over taking a home equity loan. Again, it seems you have defined one very specific path you want people to go down, but there are other ways to get there. The goal is to get there.</p>
<p>The job this week is to get the house back on the market, and get the move done. That’s a lot, and you’ve worked hard to get this far. Once that’s done, give yourself some time to consider options for keeping the monthly bills paid. </p>
<p>I totally agree-- better to have the AL put a lien on the house, which will be paid at closing.</p>
<p>NY is not one of the 30 states that have filial responsibility laws:</p>
<p><a href=“Adult Children, Aging Parents and the Law - The New York Times”>Adult Children, Aging Parents and the Law - The New York Times;
<p>List of the states with such laws:
<a href=“http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/health/NOA/30states.pdf”>http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/health/NOA/30states.pdf</a></p>
<p>I’m not an expert, but won’t a lien prevent closing? Out here in California, escrow doesn’t close without a clear title.</p>
<p>From LF:
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<p>LF, thank you so much for researching that. Every word of the above is how I understand things are done here, and how my realtor has expected things to be done, and my attorney, too. Until today, I had never heard of an offer in writing with money down; I don’t get it, because what if it is an absurd low-ball offer? Does the realtor then hold the check while you go back and forth over the phone ending up at a mutually-agreed upon price? Neither my realtor or attorney in 1985 or 2005 (when we bought our present house) ever talked about written agreements/money down, etc. </p>
<p>I will boil down to a few sentences some of what is expressed about written offers and money down to my realtor tomorrow. Incredibly, today I completely finished packing my mothers goods for the move to AL. </p>
<p>Mom of JandL. Sorry, I should scroll back and thank the person who wrote that my sister will simply ignore my…I can only use the word demand. I told her that if my husband took out a sizable loan to fill the gap if there is one between when my mother runs out of money and the closing (there probably will be), it is only fair that she and her husband make a similar effort. I just came up with the idea of a home equity loan for no special reason because I know my sister and her husband have money and that their mortgage is almost paid off–a mere few years left. I did research, and there are banks that offer no pre-penalty payback home equity loans. You apply, get a lump sum…if we don’t need it, and I feel we will–entering winter, there is no telling when the house will sell, it is no loss to them. They can return the remainder of the lump sum and be paid back at closing. </p>
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<p>A very timely remark, because it was only actually today that the word “lien” jumped into my mind and I thought to research it on line and see if/how if would apply to my mother’s financial picture. </p>
<p>A pop up message told me my post was too long, so this is a continuation…</p>
<p>You see, I “fake” being understanding about my sister and whatever problems she has, but in truth I am furious that she has not spoken to our mother since April or even farther back then that, maybe even a year, and never while our mother was in the NH and hospital, dialing my sister’s number and leaving messages, asking her to call. I have NO IDEA what her thoughts and intentions are re coming to visit on, is it , Nov 9? I forget. He wrote that she wants to “see the girls” and simply that she is coming. How do you waltz into your mother’s room when you have not spoken to her for a year? Because she has the financial means, and I feel we need protection, on my own I came up with the idea of a home equity loan. I don’t want to get into a “lien” when there is no hardship for my sister and her husband to take out a loan. But they won’t. Oh, I must mention. I copy her on all real estate communication, and I’m sure she ignores all or most of it. But yesterday I wrote her an email “house deal dead” and told her to take out a home equity loan. I knew she wouldn’t read it, so I sent her a voicemail saying "you must read the email called “house deal dead” and get back to me asap by email or phone. Very probably, totally wasted time and effort. </p>
<p>Sorry, this is a long post, and if you are bearing with me, thank you, because there are two things I want to write about. Now that the oil tank issue is resolved, my attention is turned to the terrible septic problem, and the report the ex-buyer’s service wrote described the septic system flaws as extremely horrific. It is truly horrifying to read the report.Future customers may be turned off to know there is a septic issue, degree of damage unknown, etc. Way back on Oct 1 I sent the ex-buyer’s company report to my own septic company whom we have dealt with since 1985. At this point the buyer had said he would take care of the repair if we lower the price, which we did. Anyway, now it is my problem again. This morning, I wrote to the man I dealt with on Oct 1, refreshing his in-box with copies of the ex-buyer’s analysis and a copy of the analysis he prepared for me. His analysis said that analyzing the full extent of what needs to be done is a big job and would cost $1,000. And that without that analysis, further costs could not be estimated. In my email to him this morning, I explained how my husband and I could pay for the $1,000 analysis, but whatever is found at whatever the cost, could his company wait until after the closing to be paid. I said my mother is 88, in a NH, and almost penniless. I told him how my oil company had made such an agreement with me to remove the buried tank and replace it with a tank in the basement. Now I will paste in his reply, which stunned me:</p>
<p>Dear C,</p>
<p>Although we have only corrresponed by email, you have somehow touched my heart.</p>
<p>I am sharing this message company wide as you have reminded me as a previous
O’Dell customer what service stands for.</p>
<p>With that said, as well our previous interactions, we will loyally stand by you.
I will call you tomorrow to go over in more detail.</p>
<p>I replied to him that words could not express how meaningful his note to me was, and thanked those on his staff with whom he shared my email for reading along with me.</p>
<p>I emailed all this to my realtor, and left a message on her cell phone that it was important that she read my emails tonight (I had copied her on the email to the septic company) and that she call me at 8 am to give me her opinion. I said 8 am because men in these professions start work EARLY. Although we will lose money if we repair the septic ourselves, a perfect septic might enhance and hurry along offers. </p>
<p>She had written early this morning: "Concerning the septic, I was also giving it some thought. One idea I had was to offer a credit to the buyer at closing for the amount of the tank replacement and then the buyer would have to pick up any additional costs when the work was done. "</p>
<p>Asking for advice from YOU ALL: is it better to completely repair the septic problem (provided the company can wait till closing for full payment) or follow the realtor’s advice to “offer a credit.” Based on no professional experience, of course, I would rather do the work NOW. </p>
<p>I DO NOT want to go through another “septic tank analysis, who pays for it, get a report, etc.” with a new potential buyer. </p>
<p>I completely finished packing up my mother’s things for Tuesday’s move.I think I can basically do NOTHING tomorrow but read and pet my dog. Now I must tell you about the doll carriage. </p>
<p>The friend who helped me while I cried at CVS a few months ago came to the door while I was in my mother’s house packing. She thought my car was her colleague’s car in the antique business she is in, so she wanted to come in to look at what was laid out for the Estate Sale. This woman, 30 years ago, adopted a daughter from Korea, and the child was in terrible condition, and of course, brought to the US , thrived and excelled. . She is now greatly successful as a librarian, married (to a Vietnamese immigrant), and has a daughter, a toddler. I brought my friend through the house and one item for sale is my own baby doll’s carriage, circa 1958. She exclaimed, Oh my daughter’s daughter would love this! I told her it would give me great joy if she took it, she said she would pay for it, and I said that would ruin it for me because I wanted it to be a gift to this toddler from me. We had a great friendship moment together and she took the baby doll carriage (with three dolls in it) home, and said she would give it to her granddaughter for Christmas. </p>
<p>You may wonder why I did not keep the doll carriage for one of my own daughters. Because it is meaningless to them–it has been in an attic for 20 years–I have NO sentimental attachment to it. My daughters will not care at all that it was “Mommy’s doll carriage.” I was thrilled to see a grandmother excited to give the doll carriage to her granddaughter. </p>
<p>This has been the longest post ever, and to whomever reads it, THANK YOU.</p>
<p>When I was selling my mother’s house, it needed a new roof, new flooring and new paint inside. The Realtor assured me that buyers prefer to do (or order) the work themselves, because then they know that corners weren’t cut and the job was done right. </p>
<p>• If you can get an accurate estimate of what repairing the septic system will cost, then it may work to give a credit at closing so the buyer may do the repairs themselves.</p>
<p>Also, septic tank work tends to be very bad smelling, right? What effect might that have on buyers coming to see the house? If instead of a clean smelling house, cinnamon and cookies, a buyer smells fecal odors, will they be able to overlook them-- even if they know it’s due to repairs going on? Or will they just remember the house as the one that smelled like s**t ?</p>
<p>• On the other hand, if you cannot provide the buyer with a solid written estimate of the cost of repairs, the buyer will have no way to know if the money you credit them will be enough. Not knowing how much additional they might have to shell out could be quite off-putting to a buyer. </p>
<p>Furthermore, the whole fact that it is so unpleasant to deal with septic problems might scare off buyers.</p>
<p>Finally, if the septic company won’t agree to be paid at closing, you will either have to pay it yourselves or tell the buyer to do it.</p>
<p>Regarding liens, I found this page:
<a href=“http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/Can-you-sell-your-house-with-a-lien-on-it-I-plan-on-paying-it-when-I-sell-the-house/359323/”>http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/Can-you-sell-your-house-with-a-lien-on-it-I-plan-on-paying-it-when-I-sell-the-house/359323/</a></p>
<p>Which indicates that as long as you disclose the liens and that they will be paid off at the closing, there should be no problem. The only problem would be if the lien was for more money than you would clear in the sale (which won’t happen.) But ask your attorney.</p>
<p>If your SIL’s mortgage is nearly paid off, all the more reason for your sister and her husband not to want to take on a second mortgage (which is what a home equity loan is.)</p>
<p>Also, aren’t there closing costs when taking out a home equity loan? So even if your sister and BIL were to get repaid by your Mom at the closing of her home sale, they would still be out of pocket the amount of the closing costs of their own loan.</p>
<p>And if they were given money from the home sale to cover the closing costs of their h.e. loan, then that would be money your mother had “given away”. </p>
<p>Why does that matter? Because, if she has to apply for Medicaid within 5 years of that gift, Medicaid will flag that gift (in their 5 year look-back of her accounts) and it will delay her ability to receive Medicaid funds. Any money she gives away will have the same effect-- even if she writes a check for her grandkids at Christmas. </p>
<p>Each state has a formula they use to determine how much of a delay there is in the ability to receive Medicaid funds. It’s not unusual for seniors in institutional care to run out of money and have to apply for Medicaid, so it must be considered. We stopped allowing Mom to give any family members birthday or Christmas gifts when she began needing 24/7 care, for this very reason.</p>
<p>Don’t you already have the septic tank analysis? If you have a firm bid on the repairs, then I’d suggest just planning on crediting the buyer with that amount, to get things moving along. And I’d include that in the listing, so that it’s clear to potential buyers and their agents.</p>
<p>It’s too late to correct my post 877-- I meant sister and BIL but wrote SIL.</p>
<p>Dharma said in #875 :
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<p>…so I gathered she does not, in fact, know what the repair costs are going to be.</p>
<p>Also-- if the septic company agrees to be paid at the closing, that is also putting a lien on the house! The lien will be in the amount of the cost of the work they did.</p>