Newfound Hope for OOS applying to UNC Chapel Hill

Colleges & Universities University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
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<p>I know many people on here are saying that many of us from out-of-state have very low if any chance at all if we have SAT scores lower than 1400. However, from what I have found online, many out of staters actually have scored in the 1300s and sometimes even lower and been accepted to UNC Chapel Hill this past year. The link is below and according to the graph 26.6% of out of staters scored in the 1300s on their SAT and even 17% scored in the 1200s. And there is no way that all of those people were minors or scholarship athletes. So take a look, and maybe there isn’t a reason to think admissions is impossible at UNC OOS, just competitive.</p>

<p>[First-Year</a> Undergraduate Student Profile, Fall 2009 - Office of Institutional Research and Assessment](<a href=“http://oira.unc.edu/first-time-freshman-class-profile-fall.html]First-Year”>http://oira.unc.edu/first-time-freshman-class-profile-fall.html)</p>

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<p>Thank you…this makes me feel so much better.</p>

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<p>same with me…i didnt score in the 1400s and am OOS and have a lot of other stuff to offer though…sometimes i feel that people on this forum can overestimate how difficult it is to get into certain schools…i mean dont get me wrong…18% only for OOS makes it very competitive but not impossible</p>

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<p>athletes are actually counted as in state, so there’s no way they’re in with the OOS statistics.</p>

<p>good luck to all of you (:</p>

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<p>Wait, why are athletes counted as in-state?</p>

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<p>to answer the question, athletes are counted as instate for tuition purposes (if they have to pay any), but they are counted for OOS for statistics reported</p>

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<p>Because it is cheaper for UNC to pay the in-state tuition for an athlete, and because you don’t want to fill up the 18% that you can take OSS with athletes, so that you have to turn down more qualified individuals.</p>

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<p>think about all the athletes at UNC - basketball, football, soccer, etc. my mom gave me a number of how many students at UNC are athletes, i don’t remember it, but it’s fairly big. not too many of those athletes come from NC. if those athletes were counted as out of state, then there would be next to no room for other OOS students to be in that 18 percent.</p>

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<p>patriotsfan13, you give us OOSers such hope! Thanks for the statistics, they make me feel better!</p>

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<p>I don’t understand how 21.6% of students are out-of-state public school graduates, but only 18.3% of the student body is out-of-state. I guess this means that they counted the athletes as out-of-state in the school background category but did not do so in the other categories.</p>

<p>At the same time, I can’t imagine that an out-of-state student could make it into UNC with a SAT score in the 900s-1100s unless he were an athlete.</p>

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<p>These statistics show the profiles of enrolled students, which are typically less than that of accepted students, so I don’t think anyone should feel that confident about OOS admission in regards to these numbers.</p>

<p>However, I also read somewhere the 18% OOS mandate does not apply to Morehead Scholars and recruited athletes, so it could be easier to get into UNC than typically advertised.</p>

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<p>even if the stats are of enrolled students which can be less than accepted students, the numbers still show that a significant portion of the OOS people that enrolled have SAT scores under 1400.</p>

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<p>It’s really neat to see real numbers (not %) of how many have gotten in with my sub-cc-standard scores.</p>

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<p>testify,</p>

<p>All scholarship athletes and merit scholarship recipients (Robertson, Morehead, Carolina Scholars, Pogue Scholars, Johnston Scholars, etc) are considered in-state for tuition purposes. So the OOS cap of 18% is actually more like 20%.</p>

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<p>I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubbles here but it’s important to clarify a few things lest too many get false hope.</p>

<p>The administration at UNC has been trying unsuccessfully for years to get the OOS cap raised (it is mandated by state law) above the 18% level. About four years ago they discovered a loophole in the law that said that any student on a full scholarship could be considered in state for tuition purposes and it was then further interpreted to allow them to not be counted against the 18% OOS limit. However, on the other hand, their statistics ARE used to reflect profiles of OOS students so in fact, the lower SAT/GPA numbers that you are seeing DOES include recruited athletes as well as Moreheads, Robertsons, Carolina Scholars etc. </p>

<p>When you consider that there are roughly 700 OOS students in each new freshman class plus approximately 150-175 athletes, the lower scores of many of those 150-175 can have a significant statistical impact on how the class profile looks despite the fact that the scores/GPAs of the Moreheads, Robertsons, and other named scholarship winners are helping to bring the profile up. Another thing to remember is that not all athletes are on full scholarship, many sports only offer partial scholarships so those students aren’t included in this discussion which is why I am using 150-175 as a max total of athletes.</p>

<p>The good news is that this change in interpretation has essentially opened up another 150-175 spots for OOS students that were not there before because they were taken by those athletes but don’t be fooled into thinking that “unhooked” students with SATs in the 1300s are readily being accepted in great numbers especially if they are in the low 1300s.</p>

<p>The bad news is that as the economy has weakened the number of OOS applicants has soared to record levels the last two years so the competition for those spots is even greater than in the past.</p>

<p>UNC does have a holistic admissions process and as many have said, they are looking at the whole package with essays being a very important part of the process. UNC will always have a few statistical outliers in each class just like Yale and others do but there are only about 700 spots to fill so the competition for the most part is intense for those 700 or so spots.</p>

<p>I’m sorry if I have caused any additional angst but I felt it important to clear up the misinformation/misinterpretation that was being put forth in a few of the other posts.</p>

<p>Good luck to all waiting to hear.</p>

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<p>Good post eadad, but you are incorrect when you assert</p>

<p>“The bad news is that as the economy has weakened the number of OOS applicants has soared to record levels the last two years so the competition for those spots is even greater than in the past.”</p>

<p>This is untrue because as the economy weakens, OOS admission should be easier than past years. </p>

<p>First, there is nothing to substantiate that the number “OOS applicants has soared to record levels”. That rhetoric doesn’t make sense because the number of EA applicants this year is about the same as last year and the year before. </p>

<p>Additionally, because of the recession, less OOS students will be able to commit and enroll because of financial reasons, thus the yield rate will decrease. As the yield rate decreases, UNC have to admit more students to ensure the 18% OOS ratio. </p>

<p>Moreover, as this Washington Post article notes </p>

<p>"the top public universities – the Chapel Hills, Ann Arbors and Berkeleys – are moving to enroll larger numbers of out-of-state students, who pay higher tuition and therefore tend to be wealthier than in-state students.</p>

<p>[Amid</a> recession, some college admissions policies look at students’ wealth - washingtonpost.com](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/08/AR2010010803584.html]Amid”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/08/AR2010010803584.html)</p>

<p>Granted, while UNC is still hindered by the 18% OOS mandate, they are finding loopholes around this as you already noted. With declining endowments and budget deficits, full paying OOS students are looking much more attractive to public institutions. </p>

<p>Basically, all I am trying to say is the recession will actually help OOS candidates rather than hurt them. </p>

<p>I agree with the rest of your post, which seems to insinuate that these statistics portray OOS admission as easier than they actually are.</p>

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<p>Ryan </p>

<p>I hate to argue with you but there are NO more loopholes. In fact the state legislature is trying hard to close the one that was found a few years ago because it actually made the cost of attendance for OOS winners of some of the merit awards less expensive than it was for in state winners. Go back through the CC archives, there are numerous posts about it with plenty of vitriol being expressed by in state parents.</p>

<p>I am also sorry to say that this information goes far beyond rhetoric. In last year’s admission cycle as the financial crisis was just beginning, UNC reported record applicants. There are posts in the CC archives that will verify this. My information about this year comes from sources in admissions and other sources affiliated with UNC. </p>

<p>I will agree that other schools like UVA and UM are trying to enroll more OOS students for the reasons stated but UNC has their hands tied by state law. Former Chancellor Mosier recognized that OOS students not only brought in more tuition dollars but that they also tended to gravitate to being campus leaders and on the whole became more involved while at UNC and thus were highly desirable admits. The university administration would love to be able to admit more OOS students because of budget shortfalls and other things you mention but they are in a stalemate with legislation and any discussion of increasing the percentage (they tried to get it to 22-25%) has been shot down. UVA is historically just over 31% OOS while UM is at 34% and Berkeley only at 15% but none have the state legislated and mandated enrollment cap in place that UNC does.</p>

<p>The loophole they found created a few more spots at UNC but also created HUGE controversy within the state because Carolina residents’ taxes are heavily skewed to funding higher education. I am sure that if you can find the Washington Post article that you cited that you can find articles supporting what I am stating in Raleigh newspapers.</p>

<p>The reason that OOS applications are up is because even with full cost tuition, UNC is a relative bargain when compared to many of the private schools that might have previously been in the mix for those applicants.</p>

<p>Again, I am NOT trying to bring doom and gloom, only a reality check. I for one really wish they would increase the percentage of OOS students because another thing that Mosier and his team discovered was that many of the top, top in state students were choosing to go elsewhere BECAUSE they didn’t think there was enough geographic diversity in the school. In the end the if the percentages were increased it would benefit the university as a whole because the in state yield of top students would also go up which would raise the overall school profile.</p>

<p>Unfortunately there are many who feel that admission to the state flagship school is a right rather than a privilege and that group is also the most vocal with the state legislature.</p>

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<p>I still don’t understand how 21.6% of students could have gone to an out-of-state public school (and this doesn’t include those students who go to out-of-state private/etc. schools), when the SAT and Residency categories show that 18.3% of students are out-of-state.</p>

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<p>There are a number of things that can cause that percentage to be different. For example, a student from a divorced family who has a parent still in NC paying NC taxes can be in state for admission and tuition purposes but may have attended school in another state where the other parent lives. This can also be true for children of the military who are NC residents but stationed elsewhere and for children of residents of Washington DC who qualify as in state at many OOS schools but would have obviously gone to school in DC.</p>

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<p>Alright, I’ll agree with you about there being virtually no loopholes anymore, but I have seen nothing to confirm that there have been “reported record applicants.”</p>

<p>There are no articles that confirm this report from what I have checked. If you have any tangible source I would like to see it.</p>

<p>Secondly, to state </p>

<p>“The reason that OOS applications are up is because even with full cost tuition, UNC is a relative bargain when compared to many of the private schools that might have previously been in the mix for those applicants.”</p>

<p>completely ignores the OOS students who opt to attend their own state flagship university which costs less than private schools or UNC OOS. This demographic makes up a larger number than the small percent of the population that can even afford private schools or OOS tuition. </p>

<p>Also you didn’t address the point about declining OOS yield rate which will be the most important factor in determining the number of OOS accepted students.</p>

<p>You’ve shown the historical precedent of why it has always been difficult to get admitted into UNC, but failed to disprove my claim that it should be easier to get admitted into UNC this year.</p>