<p>Harry, Sally and friends:</p>
<p><a href=“When Harry Met Sally Men And Women Cannot Be Friends - YouTube”>When Harry Met Sally Men And Women Cannot Be Friends - YouTube;
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<p>I understand that. I just gave 1 male perspective and that’s what is at issue in this thread. The issue of how straight men may or may not have a problem with someone who may or may not be checking them out in a locker room. Straight men sometimes surreptitiously check each other out too, but that’s for a different reason. And just because some straight men may have a problem with it, doesn’t mean it should affect whether someone should be employed as an athlete or treated differently in any other respect. Even if the straight person’s problem isn’t related to locker room “sexual or observation” type issues, but just general homophobia, it should not affect anything.</p>
<p>Oh, I completely agree that gay men should not be harassed at their jobs or not allowed to play in the NFL (or any other sports team)!</p>
<p>If I were a guy, I just wouldn’t be comfortable showering in the nude with other guys (even if they were straight). As a matter of fact, as a woman, I wouldn’t shower with other females (including straight females) either.</p>
<p>Guys stand next to each other at urinals. Is that a problem too?</p>
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It’s not really good manners to look.</p>
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<p>I have to disagree with this. I know plenty of lesbians, and I’ve never felt any sexual tension with them.</p>
<p>I have a very close gay friend who definitely IS always checking other guys out 
, but with complete discretion. He would never cruise a guy who he wasn’t fairly sure was gay, and if he did so–and that is subtle to the point that most straight men would miss it–and there was no response, he’d drop it immediately. </p>
<p>I’m old. In the 60s and early 70s from junior high school to college, showers were gang(open) showers and no one thought anything about it except in comparing adolescent development. I grew up in the 50s swimming nude at the Y. The Y in our area still has the gang showers. I know from my kids that kids no longer shower in middle/high school and colleges have shower stalls. I had no clue who was gay or straight but back then it didn’t really occur to us. I have no idea how college and pro sports showers are configured now.</p>
<p>Pretty much I think the naked in the locker room line of thought is bogus. I think it just comes down to people’s feelings about gay issues in general.</p>
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<p>A few do but usually you are aware. </p>
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Well, I don’t have very good peripheral vision.</p>
<p>I think the whole naked-in-the-locker room part of this is very junior high school. Aren’t these supposed to be professional adults?</p>
<p>Once you know someone is gay, that bit of relaxation is gone
Not really.
I have quite a few lesbian &/or bisexual friends. We hug, just as much as I do with my straight friends.
I have more problems with inappropriate /unwanted advances from straight men, yes even at my age- which Imo, makes it even more inappropriate because I believe they are having a Pavlov reaction to anyone who happens to be female.
:p</p>
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If I’m not mistaken, both of the people who have disagreed with this are women. I think there is more truth to this statement for men–although it seems to me that it’s much less true for people who are college and high school students now.</p>
<p>Once you know someone is gay, that bit of relaxation is gone.</p>
<p>For some people, it’s not an issue, I agree, but for others, it adds a whole other element that they may not want in the picture. Right or wrong, that feeling is real and exists for people, a lot of people. I have no compunction undressing and walking nude in a dressing room full of women. Not a bit. In a dressing room with men, I would. In fact, I would not want to undress in front of a bunch of males as a general rule. It’s conditioning from way back, and the reason for it is that there is an implied safety from sexual interest when one is in a same sex environment. My friend had a small bump on her breast, and showed it to me. She would not do that so readily with a male friend. Why? Social taboos and they are entrenched in possibilities. IF her husband had walked in on her showing me her abrasion, he would have taken the explanation without a single thought. IF he had walked in on the same scene with a male there…well, it’s not the same. We do try to avoid sexual tensions and temptations in our everyday lives, and being with a same sex person, it has been the assumption that we can relax some of that because the chances are smaller that we are inviting or will get a sexual advance. </p>
<p>I think people “check each other out” for all kinds of reasons. Straight men compare each others’ bald spots or beer bellies. Even if they are looking at each others’ (ahem) it might just be for comparison’s sake. I have worked in nearly all-female offices where I was constantly looked up and down by my (straight, female) coworkers. I am sure the overwhelming majority were not trying to picture me without clothes on but rather assessing my fashion choices or comparing my fitness level to theirs.</p>
<p>I’m sure there are people of all sexual orientations and gender identities who are not discriminating and who would go after “anything that moves.” What is silly to me is the belief among some men that they are so irresistible that even if they don’t give off the “gay vibes” as described in the article, they are at risk of being propositioned (or worse, converted).</p>
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I totally agree with you on that–it’s a delusion of grandeur. Well, maybe that could be understood with reference to an NFL athlete, who might have quite a lot of grandeur. But still, they ought to be able to deal with it.</p>
<p>Nudity taboos are weird, but strong. For example, it’s OK for my wife to see me with no clothes on, and it’s OK for my son to see me with no clothes on. But it would seem really wrong for both of them to see me with no clothes on at the same time.</p>
<p>I don’t mind undressing in front of my male doctors and nurses. I figure, we’re all grown-ups here and we’ve got a job to do. Oh, and if you are uncomfortable in the nude with strangers - don’t go sauna in Scandinavia or parts of Germany. All nude, co-ed saunas are considered normal (you can also find same-sex ones). I’ve even seen people bring young children. Americans are much more hung up on nudity than Europeans. </p>
<p>I recently asked my gay son whether he had any problem with his straight roommate. He just said " Oh, Mom, he’s totally not my type." I don’t think they’ve ever had any issues (other than straight roommate sexiling my S waaay too much). </p>
<p>I had some college roommates come out after college. It explained a few things, but I don’t consider it a big deal. Now, many college students come out during college, and it doesn’t seem like it makes a big impact (at least in my kids’ experience). And as kids are starting to come out in high school, more and more kids are going to be used to having openly gay people around. It’s amazing to me that this guy will be the first openly gay player in pro men’s football or baseball or basketball or hockey.</p>
<p>Ha, ha, I grew up in Germany, and yes, I’ve been in group baths in Japan. If there is a mixed group there and it’s the way the flow is going, ti’s fine I agree that Americans are far more hung up on these things. Still I preferred having a female gynecologist and would prefer to go to male doctors I don’t see a lot socially, so, yes, have some of these modesty hang ups. Doubt I’m the only one too </p>
<p>But what if your gay son did get a room mate who was totally his type. Like he made him hot and turned on? Not so comfortable for roommate and for son, and there is a lot of room there for some misunderstandings in normal interactions. Throw a joint or some drinks in the scene, and, yeah, there could be some issues. The old taboos did insulate with a degree or so more of protection. </p>
<p>I would not want a roommate at some function ( who was not my SO or lover) who was sexually attracted to me sharing my room, male or female. is the bottom line, given my situation. I’d flat out turn down a male roommate and assume that the chances are slim with a female one, but would ask for a switch if there were any sexual attraction tensions I could feel. It’s just something I don’t want to think about or deal with in certain scenarios. </p>
<p>I think as a society, we’re all just going to have to get comfortable with openly gay folks of both sexes in our locker rooms, school showers, Scout troops, etc. I do not want to live in a society with apartheid against part of the population (separate showers, separate dorm rooms, etc). Men and women have lived in co-ed dorms with co-ed bathrooms for decades and, somehow, it works. It all comes down to respect. I would like to hope that my gay son would respect any roommate (gay or straight) enough not to attack them, or even make them feel uncomforable. </p>
<p>I agree that the times, they are a’changing. </p>
<p>Huge difference between attacking someone, which one has control over and making them uncomfortable, which may not be controllable. You have a strong sexual reaction to someone with whom you are in close quarters, it’s hard to keep that down. </p>
<p>People in the workplace manage this all the time (some better than others). I understand that being in the same living space is different but, again, it boils down to respect.</p>
<p>Just being attracted to someone shouldn’t be an issue. Acting on it - when it is unwanted - should be the issue. After all, I had a huge crush on my first boss. We traveled together, etc. and spent plenty of time together. He may have sensed that I was smitten - but no one said anything and nothing happened. I don’t think sharing a room (like a dorm room) would present any problems. If one party has an issue showering in front of another, then I’m sure they can find ways to avoid it. In the NFL issue - if the player in question hasn’t had any issue showering with teammates in probably 8-10 years of playing, why should it be an issue now? I personally think people are making issues where they don’t exist. There have been gay men in the NFL for ages!</p>