No Good Deed Goes Unpunished???

Parent Cafe
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<p>O.K. - I know this is trivial, and furthermore has nothing to do with college, but anyway, long story short, a large tree on the property of the house we rent all of a sudden decided to reposition itself sideways, and, it’s partially extended out over the sidewalk in front of the house, and most of it is being partially supported by palm trees that line the road. </p>

<p>It’s a good sized tree - I’m guessing maybe 40 feet high, with lots of long branches. We have no idea what has happened, because the base of it is so deeply concealed in foilage and other plant growth than we cannot see if the ball of it came out of the ground, or what…</p>

<p>Anyway, I sent email to the property owner/landlord; he said he would come look at it; I sent more email in reply that my landscaper offered to cut it back to confined within the “airspace” of the property, and haul off all the stuff for $50. </p>

<p>Landlord sent email response back saying no, wait, don’t do anything until he has a chance to come over and look at it. That was reasonable, and I wouldn’t authorize it anyway without his permission, etc. He lives 5 minutes away so I sort of thought he’d be along shortly…</p>

<p>Landlord finally came over last night; we spent some time talking about it. I suggested maybe he get an arborist to come out and give an opinion, see if the tree could be rescued. Neither of us were able to penetrate the foilage surrounding the base of the tree to be able to see anything that might tell us what had happened to cause it to be this way. There’s way too much greenery and there is simply no way to walk through it. </p>

<p>Anyway, in the course of discussion, because he didn’t know an arborist, he asked me what my landscaper thought. I explained to him that my landscaper doesn’t have that level of sophistication or education; he only knows that he has a chain saw or whatever, and he can cut the tree down. Landlord then responded that it cost him $850-ish to have similar size trees cut back following a hurricane or two. I explained that my landscaper initially offered only $25, but, I recommended $50 - the tree is large, the job will not be easy, and, quite frankly, it’s 90 degrees here and quite humid - not exactly easy work - that’s how we got to $50. But I explained to my landlord “I am telling you this to put this in context to you so that you understand his level of sophistication, and that is why I do not think he will have a valid opinion on a matter that an arborist will know more about - for example, he wanted to charge only $30 to do the grounds (front and back) once a month, but, I pay him $40; I believe $30 is too low… - and, while I’m interested in getting the best price for services, I am not into stealing from people”. - the landlord seemed to understand this and we left the discussion that he was going to ask a few of his peers for their recommendations and get back to me. </p>

<p>So, I get an email from him this morning, saying he’d checked with a friend or two, and, there’s a new local ordinance that says trees hanging around where they’re not supposed to be = bad, therefore, no time to consult an arborist, please go ahead and call my landscape man, and, he will gladly pay the original $25 that I explained he quoted, and it is up to me to pay the rest of the bill, since I would like to “tip” the landscaper. </p>

<p>I’m really annoyed at this. In the first place, the landlord is a tenured professor in architecture; he’s teaching courses this summer in landscape design (I hope he doesn’t read CC; or, maybe it’s better to hope he does) - and, he certainly must realize the extent of manual work involved in fixing this problem. The property - which is beautiful - is worth just under half a million dollars.</p>

<p>My landscaper, comparatively, is a minority, missing half his teeth, and almost certainly doesn’t have any health insurance. He does an EXCELLENT job - I’ve actually had neighbors approach and tell me that the grounds haven’t be cared for this beautifully in years - but he charges ridiculously low prices and drives around in a truck that looks like it’s falling apart. </p>

<p>It’s not so much about the $25 that I now have to pay, it’s the principle of the thing. I don’t happen to think it’s fair or right to take advantage of people, especially considering the difficulty of the work, and the challenging tropical environment. </p>

<p>Should I have just simply kept my mouth shut and not told the landlord that I intentionally doubled the price? Or, should I have simply gone along with underpaying the landscaper? Or, should I have made no recommendation at all, and just let the landlord figure it out all by himself?</p>

<p>Meanwhile, I haven’t answered the email…</p>

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<p>do what’s right…</p>

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<p>I would write back and say the landscaper no longer is able to do it - that was an immediate offer that had already been refused by the landlord. And then stay out of it.</p>

<p>Edit: Or I would tell him that the landscaper made the offer to you as a friend and loyal customer, and not to the landlord, whom he doesn’t know. And it is up to the landlord to arrange a contract with the landscaper. If the landscaper chooses to do it for the low fee, then that is his right.</p>

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<p>What I would do is tell him I don’t feel comfortable paying someone who I have a good longstanding relationship with that low amount, since that’s not what I normally pay the guy, therefore if he wants to go out and find someone himself to do the job, or try to get that guy, for that amount he can. Is it really your responsibility to find someone to do the job or his?</p>

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<p>Adding to my previous post and what doubleplay said, I think it would be especially important in a dangerous and or “legal” situation, that the contract be specifically between the landlord and landscaper. Otherwise, if something happens (such as a fine from the city, or an injury while cutting) the landlord might decide he had nothing to do with it, and it was your hire, not his.</p>

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<p>NONE of this is my responsibility. </p>

<p>How my landscaper even got into it, he just happened to be here last Thursday to do his work, and said “wow, what happened to the tree?” and then I had to explain I didn’t know, and he also tried to get through the foilage and growth to the base of it, and he also could not do so. That’s sort of where I deduced he has no health insurance - he was having even more trouble than I was trying to penetrate the growth to try to see what was up with the base of the tree, and having trouble with one leg, and he told me that he fractured his knee, but, doesn’t have a cast on it and it isn’t even wrapped or anything. </p>

<p>Bottom line, he said “I’ll cut it, for, say, $25” and that’s when I said it was too low of a price. I have trees at my house in our home city and I have been paying tree people for YEARS, for far smaller jobs, and none of them have been $25 or even $50. </p>

<p>The landlord was perfectly fine with the $50 UNTIL I explained that the landscaper originally offered $25, and I bumped it up, on the basis that negotiating for good prices is one thing, but outright stealing and taking advantage of people, especially people who work out in the hot sun all day, manual labor, is another thing entirely. The landlord didn’t have any adverse comment about it, and I had no idea he would make such an issue over $25 more dollars - Jesus Mary and Joseph what a very small amount of money - until I received his email this morning. </p>

<p>I feel like just answering the email to say that I lost his phone number or he cannot do it any more, sorry, but, that’s sort of wrong too - my sense is that the landscaper really would like to be able to have the work, and the $50.</p>

<p>I did also tell the landlord last night, what if the landscaper has no health insurance, what if he gets injured, will his homeowners insurance cover that? He didn’t answer me…</p>

<p>This really sucks.</p>

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<p>LTS, I just would have not mentioned the original $25 offer to you landlord in the first place…the odds are high that little good would have come of it. Your heart and instincts are in the right place and I commend you. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, the tree needs to be dealt with and your landlord is getting a heck of a deal. From everything you’ve said, most people would charge several hundreds of dollars to get rid of the tree. I’d ask your landlord if he can get a better price than $50 himself and that if he can do so, do so immediately.</p>

<p>As you’ve described the job, I wouldn’t offer less than $100 myself. </p>

<p>Finally, your landlord is a schmuck. But I think you already figured that out.</p>

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<p>I agree. But you can’t take back your words. But I still feel that the landscaper did not make the offer to your landlord. Perhaps you could call the landscaper, tell him the landlord wants to hire him, give him the phone number, and advise him to hold out for at least $50. Then let them settle it between them.</p>

<p>Crossposted – I like the above answer better!</p>

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<p>Why not just sit on it? It’s the cheapskate landlord’s problem, after all, not yours. BTW, I wouldn’t insult the landscaper w/the $25 pay either.</p>

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<p>I agree with binx - don’t be the middleman in a relationship that could have legal consequences. Offer the phone number of your landscaper to your landlord but let him do the calling and price negotiation.</p>

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<p>I also would either:
(1) email that the landscaper is no longer available for the job or
(2) email that you “have been advised” that you should not be the one contracting this work, since there are local ordinances involved and you are not the property owner. Give him the landscaper’s contact information and leave it at that. (Then tell your landscaper to hold out for $150 or more :wink: ).</p>

<p>PS Weren’t you thinking of buying a place? Maybe now would be the time :wink: ;).</p>

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<p>Having the landscapper work so cheaply probably means he carries no insurance, not just health. READ your homeowners policy to be sure you have coverage for him doing your lawn to begin with. You may be at a larger risk than you think. Call your PC guy today.</p>

<p>As far as a tree goes, he definately shouldn’t touch it. There is a tremendous risk involved in taking down a tree. Whomever does it should be licensed and bonded. Skipping those aspects could make the homeowner resposible and depending on your policy and how it deals with “hired” help you might not have coverage. </p>

<p>It doesn’t hurt to check before you decide.</p>

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<p>I’d back out fast from the whole thing. Email the landlord that the tree is his responsibility and that you have done your part in informing him of the problem. You can include the number of your gardener if you want to but personally, I’d be calling the county/city/whatever department in charge of tree maintenance. This tree situation sounds like it could be a physical hazard to anyone passing by on the sidewalk or automobiles. The city/county will send people out to cut up the tree (properly trained people) and send the bill to your landlord. (It won’t be no $25 bucks, either!)</p>

<p>As for your landscaper, make up the $50 loss by recommending him to all your friends.</p>

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<p>Is this a large hardwood tree? The last time we had to get a 40-ft. tree taken down (about 12 in. diameter), it cost us $500 – and that doesn’t begin to consider what it would cost for a big old oak tree of that size. The neighbors just paid ~$1500 for a 60 foot oak with stump grinding. They then rented a splitter and turned the remains into firewood. Around here, the county won’t come out to remove a tree unless it’s a danger to a public road. I would insist your landlord handle this – it’s his property, and he should have insurance to cover loss/damage/injury.</p>

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<p>We just had a big old oak tree fall on our house a few months ago, after a storm. It was the neighbor’s tree, and it was alive, but with all the rain and wind, it just fell over–on our house. Our insurance paid for it, but the tree people charged about $2700 to cut it up and haul it off.</p>

<p>The problem with allowing the landlord to take care of it-- he’ll end up having someone simply cut it down; you can bet money on it. He won’t want to deal with it in future, so having the whole thing cut down, rather than cut back, will be his solution. Frankly, I’d let the landscaper trim it back and pay him the $50 or whatever you offered. At least you’d save the tree that way, and you’re out only $25. </p>

<p>Another thought-- in our area, if a tree is blocking a public sidewalk or street, the city will come and trim it back for free (or paid through your taxes). If it’s hanging over power lines, the power company will come and trim it back for free. Of course, their “trimming” is more like butchering, but at least the tree is saved, and nobody loses any money.</p>

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<p>I think it cost us at least $500 to take down a tree, medium sized, in our back yard.</p>

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<p>I have a lot of trees at the house that I own; typically to have them shaped, trimmed, etc., runs a few hundred dollars. It depends on if my neighbors are going in with me and we do a multiple-house contract, but, it’s certainly never $50 - for anything. </p>

<p>I’m so mad about this I cannot answer the email even. I’m really just so angry.</p>

<p>I need to take the advice that says to send him a reply that positions the responsibility - as well as the legal burden - right back on him, where it belongs, but I’m too mad to write it.</p>

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<p>Maybe the landlord has a lot of properties and really just doesn’t want to get into doubling everybody’s quote for doing something. The landscaper is way underpriced, and while you are doing a good thing by offering him more money, you’re still paying him a lot less than the going rate in your area, I suspect. So while you’re making yourself feel better and morally/ethically superior to the landlord by doubling the poor landscaper’s rate, it’s still not competitive pay. You’re almost as bad as the landlord, but not quite. :wink: </p>

<p>Again, if the tree is hanging over a public sidewalk, call the city and have them do it for free, or have the landlord call the city. That way, nobody is out any money; of course, the landscaper ultimately loses out altogether.</p>

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<p>Actually, Jack, once I got past my initial irritation in reading your post, particularly “you’re almost as bad as the landlord” (I don’t THINK so), I thought about what you posted, and, you just provided me with the perfect solution.</p>

<p>Can you guess what it is?</p>

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<p>Wait. You’re going to stop reading my posts? Seriously, though, just have the city do it, or pay the landscaper the going rate. Forget the landlord. Now you can stop reading my posts. ;)</p>