<p>"Egalia doesn’t deny the biological differences between boys and girls the dolls the children play with are anatomically correct.</p>
<p>What matters is that children understand that their biological differences “don’t mean boys and girls have different interests and abilities,” Rajalin says. “This is about democracy. About human equality.”</p>
<p>Except as many of us moms who raised a boy and a girl discovered - boys and girls DO have different interests and abilities. </p>
<p>Girls mature faster, so at a young age they’re well ahead of most boys both psychologically and often physically. And while there is some overlap, I saw pretty dramatic difference in the interests of boys and girls. My daughter was definitely drawn to dolls at a young age; her younger brother paid no attention to any of her toys with the exception of the Barbie Corvette. </p>
<p>We can play all we want with language and conduct all kinds of experiments in the sandbox. But let’s not confuse that with equal opportunities. Equal opportunities should be defined and protected by law. Because in this country - as well as in Sweden - when they grow up, too many girls still earn less than boys no matter how they were addressed in kindergarten.</p>
<p>I took a law and gender class last semester, and a big theme in it was the idea that for a lot of people gender equality is the idea that because men and women are the same, they are equal-- when in fact that is inherently sexist anyway because in practice (like in the workplace) it assumes a male reference point. We studied that another less common, possibly better way to look at it is that it is okay to admit that men and women ARE different and STILL deserve to have equal opportunity despite those differences. I like that better, personally. The idea that I have to prove that I’m more like a man than the “traditional” female figure to earn equal opportunity doesn’t sit well with me, but that’s the way the ideal worker model works. We studied dozens upon dozens upon dozens of court cases in that class-- divorce, domestic violence, sexual harassment, title VII, and it was really quite frighting the sort of things that go on that nobody hears about because womens studies is a frivolous pursuit. :P</p>
<p>Having taken that class, I no longer have much ability to stomach feminism debates. So now that I have contributed my two cents, I will proceed with hiding from this thread. I’d end up posting a 40 page legal research paper otherwise.</p>
<p>Gender equality should be about male and female being equal. Not that they have to loose their gender traits to become equal, but that whether masculine or feminine, they’re equal.</p>
<p>Yes, there’s social conditioning to differentiate male from female, but that’s how humanity is. Male/female isn’t simply biology, it’s psychology, and there’s nothing wrong with that divide, as long as both are treated equally.</p>
<p>I don’t think pronouns are the key here. These Swedes should look next door at Finland. The Finnish language does not have any gender in its pronouns in the first place - everyone is “it” no matter what their sex. It’s been that way for thousands of years. Yet, I bet the Finnish and Swedish societies are indistinguishable with respect to the degree of sexism.</p>
<p>They want kids to be “themselves” but they are eliminating traditional gender roles from the allowed “self.” They acknowledge that there are physical biological differences between boys and girls but choose to assume that there are no psychological differences. They removed all children’s books that don’t portray “homosexual couples, single parents or adopted children,” as if heterosexual couples don’t exist anymore.</p>
<p>There are ways to be fair and equal without forcing everyone to be the same against their nature.</p>
<p>Yes, as a group. But there is considerable variation within each gender, as I witnessed by having a daughter who excelled in math and a son who excelled in English. </p>
<p>It has also been interesting to watch what has happened once the barriers that once made certain occupations or activities men-only or women-only were dropped. Could anyone have imagined 50 years ago that today, the vast majority of people obtaining degrees in veterinary medicine would be women?</p>
<p>I’m not saying that boys and girls aren’t different, just that we should also recognize that group differences don’t necessarily apply to individuals and that it’s hard to determine which differences are culturally based and which are inherent in the natures of men and women.</p>
<p>^^^ The progress you cite in veterinary medicine, and a zillion other professions, is due in no small measure to those pesky feminists that young women like to malign these days
Yet women still on average earn less than their male counterparts and one result of women going into veterinary medicine, and medicine as a whole has been – a drop in salaries in these fields. These gender issues - from playing in the sandbox to salaries earned by highly educated professionals - are complex and social/political in nature. We shouldn’t be limiting the debates to pronouns, as coureur pointed out so well.</p>
<p>The veterinary medicine phenomenon interests me because this was once a man’s profession, but after the barriers came down, it turned out that the vast majority of people interested in this type of work were women. It’s not 50:50. The field is becoming hugely female-dominated. Perhaps this reflects a natural gender difference rather than a culturally created one.</p>
<p>humans, regardless of sex(and gender), have different interests and abilities. how can a little “boy” or “girl” ever become interested in the culturally defined “boy” “interests” and “abilities” if they’re never introduced to him? what would these “boys” or “girls” then become interested in, or what abilities(maybe their poor ones) will they ever show abilities for if say the “boy” never is introduced to typical activities that are defined as “boy” or “masculine”?</p>
<p>there are many examples of transgendered children who prove that even when exposed to the ‘opposite’ activities they still prefer, and fight for, activities/lifestyle associated with the opposite sex.</p>
<p>That’s not quite what I meant. It’s not that the debates shouldn’t be limited to pronouns. It’s that the debates should not include pronouns at all. </p>
<p>As the example of Finnish shows, elimination of gender in pronouns has no effect on sexism. Promoting nonsensical red herrings such as that detracts from finding solutions to real problems and makes the people promoting them look silly.</p>
<p>Regarding veterinary medicine – once upon a time (like 1969) the vet schools such as Cornell were producing veterinarians for the dairy industry. Physical strength was a requirement – in fact there was a strength test as part of the admissions requirements. (As a teenager, I wanted to be a vet. My dad happened to be at Cornell on business and inquired about admissions. They frankly admitted that there was a gender bias, because of the physical demands of the profession.) </p>
<p>Fast forward to the twenty-first century. Vet schools are producing doctors for companion animals (dogs, cats, and other household pets), much more so than 40 years ago. The physical demands are less, and more women are attracted to the profession. </p>
<p>In retrospect, it didn’t matter that I was perfectly capable of picking up the 100 lb newborn calf. I was from a state without a vet school or contracts and there was no place for me to go. So now, I own a pet store!</p>
I’d end up posting a 40 page legal research paper otherwise.</p>