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<p>No, I can’t. I was surprised that anyone else would attempt it, either.</p>
<p>cobrat,</p>
<p>I ask a question that you already know the answer to, but my desire to also know the answer means I have a suspect “mentality?” Pretty funny</p>
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<p>Lawyers on the board, what do you think? Would you call it a smart move to call the dining hall “nut-sensitive” (which implies, we try our best, but no guarantees) versus “peanut-free” (which might imply we set up ourselves to meet that standard 100% at all times without fail)? </p>
<p>I would think it’s a smart move, but I can’t comment on the legal aspect. Unlike cobrat, I haven’t already “discussed” these issues with lawyers of my acquaintance in the hopes that I’d gain knowledge for a discussion board posting one day.</p>
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<p>God, that must just suck, to have one penny of your hard-earned money go to anything that doesn’t benefit you directly! I mean, I don’t even want to have to pay for the fire department unless I have a fire.</p>
<p>The prevalence numbers are estimates that greatly vary. I met a patient today that had a reaction to cinnamon. She isn’t going to follow up with a physician because of costs, she will just avoid cinnamon. However, she won’t be accounted. I have had several pediatric patients with known peanut allergies per parent reports. But because none of the allergists in town see Medicaid patients, they won’t be accounted for either. My point is that under reporting is the norm with food allergies. Plus, I am finding more and more adults who are developing peanut allergies in their 20s, 30s, 40s, and even 50s despite no prior history of any issues with peanuts. This is becoming a bigger issue than we currently realize. Anecdotally, I believe the prevalence numbers are at minimum 5%.</p>
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I work in a law firm. We have a scent policy (and what one firm does, all firms do) that involves possibly asking to refrain from all scents if located near someone who is sensitive. We currently have an ongoing issue with this.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, there’s no way I’d put any kind of label on it. </p>
<p>I would try to make one dining hall peanut free, and I would state something like:</p>
<p>"University of Non-Peanut makes every effort to be sensitive to the needs of our students with food allergies such as peanut and tree nut allergies. We work hard to provide a safer environment for such students, specifically, in the Non-Peanut Dining Hall. Here you will see ingredients of all items posted. We hope this helps you make choices that are healthy for you. We ask that all who enter the dining hall NOT bring any outside food or drink into the dining hall.</p>
<p>"<strong>We cannot guarantee against cross-contamination due to the free entry of others who may consume or handle products which may cause a reaction for some</strong>"</p>
<p>I would not CLAIM to exclude peanuts or tree nuts from all products - but I would exclude them in this one hall.</p>
<p>Sue, I appreciate your protein-alternatives list. But if you are a typical college student eating at a typical dining hall, many of them are not things you might reliably depend on being there every day (and being prepared in a non-revolting way). I would eliminate the veggies as a substitute because they are not filling enough (although of course I would eat them as well); I would eliminate the carby suggestions; and personally I am not a fan of tempeh, seitan, tofu, etc. and would neither trust a cafeteria cook to make it delicious nor attempt would I to make it in my dorm room. Not to mention, many of your suggestions require refrigeration and/or more complicated preparation than what it takes to open a jar of peanut butter and eat it off a spoon.</p>
<p>Again, there is a reason peanuts are such a staple in many parts of the world, especially developing countries where cost and nutrition-per-ounce are huge issues.</p>
<p>Sue,</p>
<p>No one is arguing that protein substitutes for nuts do not exist. But nothing on that list translates as easily to the convenience and taste associated with eating nuts.</p>
<p>My hunch is that those on this thread who are PA or have PA children, have not had nuts in their diets for 18+ years. Others of us eat nuts several times a day, everyday. For example, I eat granola with nuts every morning, peanut butter sandwiches for lunch often, and almonds with my red wine almost every day. Sure, I can change this routine to get my protein from other sources, but I like the way I eat, and I am quite healthy, so I’d want to have a good reason to change. I’d feel the same way about removing eggs and dairy (also common allergens) from my diet. And yes, saving someone’s life is a good reason.</p>
<p>A few people commented that making a dorm or academic building ADA compliant doesn’t affect the other students. Many years ago my college renovated a number of campus buildings after a student who had been paralyzed in an accident returned to school.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It was exceptionally expensive, making less money available for scholarships.</p></li>
<li><p>Ramps, elevators and wider hallways ate up space formerly occupied by dorm rooms and classrooms.</p></li>
<li><p>While the renovations were underway entire classes and offices had to be relocated to less convenient buildings.</p></li>
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<p>No one grumbled about the fact that the school was being turned upside down to accommodate the needs of one student.</p>
<p>We eat peanuts and peanut butter all summer but don’t buy them during the year because they’re banned at my kid’s school. It’s just not that hard an adjustment for us.</p>
<p>Sally305-
Eliminate veggies, tofu and carbs as protein sources from a meat, dairy and egg-free diet? Perhaps your vegan is the one who should be living off campus and cooking his or her own meals.</p>
<p>Sue, I don’t have a vegan child, nor am I vegan. I was just pointing out that many of your suggested substitutes are unappealing or impractical for many reasons. Personally I don’t eat eggs or meat, but I love dairy, veggies, and carbs (which I try to restrict for other reasons). And I eat a TON of nuts, both in peanut butter and other forms. As I stated way upthread, when I was in college the dorm food was so vile I ate a bowl of peanut butter and carrot or celery sticks every night for dinner.</p>
<p>There is a cost issue associated with being hungry all the time, too. If the dining hall food is not satisfactorily filling, one is more likely to spend money on unhealthy “fourth-meal” type foods purchased from fast food outlets or other late-night establishments. I am sure Pizzagirl can attest to the wonderful product known as pizza turnovers from the food trucks that frequented our college. Each one probably had 1000 calories of carby, fatty goodness. For a student staying up late to study, steamed veggies and tofu aren’t going to tide him or her over very long.</p>
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<p>That was my hunch too, until I looked at past comments from shellz–the poster who suggested others don’t value her or her child’s life if they don’t support a total nut ban. shellz’ daughter has apparently made it through a large university with a life-threatening tree-nut allergy, which is great. She also recommended granola bars and puppy chow (made with Chex and PB) on some other threads about quick snacks for athletes and other hungry kids, so perhaps she has served them in her home. Hopefully she will see this and weigh in!</p>
<p>Interestingly, our K-12 public schools have provided nut free tables in the normal cafeterias for at least the last 12 years. That includes 40 elementary schools, 19 middle schools, and 12 high schools. Those tables are for kids with allergies and anyone else who packs a nut free lunch and wants to sit there.</p>
<p>Nobody has suffered, nobody who wants peanut butter or other nut products has had to go without, nobody has died, and as far as I know, nobody has had an allergic reaction requiring a trip to the emergency room.</p>
<p>Nobody is exiled to a different cafeteria, and everyone is happy with their food.</p>
<p>Why is it so much more difficult to do the same thing in a single college dining hall, with people who are (mostly) adults, and with the nut sensitive person having had 13 years of prior experience eating in cafeterias?</p>
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<p>Mostly because of cross-contamination at self-serve food stations. </p>
<p>The system that worked effectively in a school cafeteria, where food was either brought from home or served by trained employees, may not work in an environment where the knife that students use to spread cream cheese on their bagels may get mixed up with the one that’s used to spread peanut butter or where the spoon that’s used to serve fried rice might inadvertently touch the kung pao chicken that a student has already placed on his plate.</p>
<p>I’ll say it again. $3 for a jar of peanut butter in the student’s room. He or she can spoon to his or her heart’s content.</p>
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<p>Then the PA student should be able to engineer out that problem by not eating from the self-serve stations and ordering only from dining hall cooks who are serving peanut-free food. And ALWAYS maintaining hyper-vigilance when deciding what to eat, which means asking questions and making damn sure the food they choose is safe. Again, the girl in CA died and emeraldkity’s coworker got sick because neither one followed well-established best practices for avoiding exposure to nuts–even though both of them apparently knew better. Neither one was force-fed nuts or subjected to airborne particles that made them sick.</p>
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<p>Ha! I will!</p>
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<p>It could work if there are sufficient stations where peanut-free food is served by trained personnel who serve the food onto clean plates (rather than adding it to plates that already contain other food self-served by the student).</p>
<p>However, unfortunately, not all dining halls are set up this way. A couple of years ago, I attended a summer program for adults at a college, where we ate in a dining hall with the summer session students and the kids at various sports camps. The ONLY foods served by dining hall personnel were omelets at breakfast and sushi at lunch and dinner. Everything else was self-serve. </p>
<p>Would you ask anyone to live entirely on omelets and sushi? Remember that they can’t have anything else with it – no bread, no salad, no beverages, nothing – because everything else in the dining hall might be cross-contaminated.</p>
<p>Sue, if it was JUST peanut butter that would be one thing. It’s NOT. It’s a peanut-free environment. That’s not just peanut butter!</p>