Non-Custodial Parent Able to Contribute, But Won't

Paying for College
101

@fireandrain Thank you so much.

First of all, I cry a lot. Yes, the college admissions process has made the tears fall many times over the last four years… My dad doesn’t handle people crying very well. The act stresses him out.

I looked at the FA figures on College Board. Richmond’s average FA package is $44,626, while Mount Holyoke’s is 36,826. If I get into Richmond, it appears that it will be much more affordable and I won’t need to ask my dad for anything.

I don’t think I’ll find anything in my mailbox from Richmond until April 10th at the earliest.

I considered applying to transfer to Brown, but with the low acceptance rate and limited financial aid, I thought it would be best to save my money.

102

The “average” FA awards on College Board probably don’t mean much. If MHC attracts less “needy” students then that skews the average. They are both meets 100% need schools, correct? Does Richmond require the CSS Profile and non-custodial parent paperwork?

I agree with fireandrain, above, do not worry about not having spending money at MHC. My D did not apply for enough work-study hours her first semester (which is her spending money, laundry, toiletries, books, etc) and she had to be very frugal. She grouched a bit that other girls were getting coffees or going shopping, but she still had an amazing time…

103

@‌staceyneil Yes, MH and Richmond both claim to meet 100% of need.

Richmond did require the non-custodial Profile, the Profile, but it didn’t need my dad’s 2014 federal income tax return. Mount Holyoke did.

I’m frugal anyway. I should be fine.

104

Have you contacted MHC yet about the possibility of increasing your award? I know you said earlier you intended to. I really hope that one or the other comes through for you (and I’m personally rooting for MHC because I’m so impressed with it!)

105

@staceyneil No, I haven’t contacted MHC about increasing my award.

I think it wouldn’t look very good if I contacted them, they gave me an additional $1500 grant or something and the next day, I received my (more generous) award from Richmond.

If Richmond is out of the question, I think I will seem much more passionate about MHC. I could definitely see myself there. The data science program sounds amazing and I could even take Persian if I wanted.

106

@sybbie719‌ She is only asking the dad for $3500 He hasn’t had to pay anything because the mom became a proffessor to pay for the kids education.

107

It would all come down to what the decree actually says.

If it says half the cost of MSSU, then that’s zero because of the full ride. This seems to be the likely way it is said in the decree, because neither parent has provided any financial support to you in college.

If it says half the tuition and fees at MSSU, or half of college costs after grants and scholarships are applied, anything like that, then that’s a different matter.

If it came before a Judge, the Judge would 99% likely enforce it as whatever it says, literal meaning.

  1. What does the decree actually say?
  2. What would it cost in attorney's fees to take it to court, if it does not simply say half the cost of MSSU (or half the cost of MSSU after scholarships and grants are applied, or similar)?

“I don’t think my dad understands that I will be $28,000 in debt if he doesn’t help. Either that, or I will be stuck at MSSU because of him.” He probably does understand. That doesn’t make it his fault that you’re unhappy; he’s not the one who wants to transfer. He’s still paying his support for your brother and he thought your college education was all taken care of. He has every right to say, “I’ll just continue to follow the decree to the letter.”

What does the decree actually say?

108

@FCCDAD The only reason college would “be taken care of” is because the mother switched careers to become a proffessor during Chelsea’s freshman year to pay for college. All this decree stuff is BS. She will get nothing from the dad. He plans to contribute nothing for her college despite the intentions of the agreement. You are either an honorable person or you are not.

109

The decree either says half the cost at MSSU, or it does not.

You either comply with the decree as written, or you do not.

What are the “intentions” of the decree? That depends on what it actually says. (Don’t forget the Parole Evidence rule!)

You say BS, I say law.

110

FCCDad: Does it really matter if the decree says “half the cost at MSSU”, or “half the tuition and fees at MSSU”? I assume the decree was written BEFORE she got her scholarship – the intent of the agreement was that the father was responsible for some college costs. He sure was lucky that she got the deal she got and that she lived at home so he ended up having to pay nothing.

Your arguments are enlightening to those of us who don’t understand how a parent can decide to avoid college costs. Chelsea has two years of college under her belt and has cost her father nothing. At some point he agreed to help cover college costs. Instead of making rationalizations and saying he’s met his obligations because MSSU cost her nothing (which is what you’re doing), it would be nice if he helped her out.

Chelsea, call Mount Holyoke. Don’t worry about what Richmond does.

111

If mom is a professor dies her school participate in any kind of tuition exchange? Does mom employer help pay for college ? I know that some schools will pay 100% tuition if child attend school where parent works an a percentage if they attend someplace else

112

@FCCDAD You haven’t read the decree so stop pretending that you have. Why are you even defending this guy? There are many dads who are far more worthy. This dad was on the hook for 20k per kid for college. He getsto pay nothing because the mother changed careers for her kids. Golf claps for the dad. When Chelsea really needs help he is not there for even a few thousand dollars which is one tenth what he was on the hook for. According to Chelsea, he’s not there for the son either. What a great guy.

113

IMHO, a degree from MoHo is most likely worth the $28,000 debt. Alienating your father at this point probably is not. Its a tough place to be in and we are also living it first hand right now as well. I’m very sorry this is happening to you ~ its really too much for a kid your age to handle on top of the stress you are experiencing. That being said, sometimes its best to cut your losses and figure out how YOU are going to make this work. I think I’d go to the school that you think will best fit your goals and leave Dad out of the picture. He has to live with himself and his choices, that will be enough kharma to last a life time if you do well and prove yourself. Good luck to you, I wish you the best !

114

Mount Holyoke is a Tuition Exchange participant, but it does not appear that MSSU is, per tuitionexhange.org - but there another TE program I am unaware of.

115

Only a few more days to wait on other school FA package.

I agree the average of award doesn’t mean what you may think - only if you have the same set of data for both schools and one is higher.

Have our fingers crossed for you OP!

116

We don’t know what the decree says. It’s rare that it would specify a college by name. But the wording of the decree would be important if it were to go to court. These things rarely do and I don’t expect the OP to do so either. When it does go to court, it’s when Mama Bear gets riled. Then Papa Grizzley usually has to pay up, in such cases.

Sorry, Chelsea, that your dad won’t help you out. You do have that option of taking him to court that most kids don’t have, since there is a provision in the divorce settlement that MIGHT force him to cough up some money. Most kids don’t even have that option. You are stuck with your parents and what they feel like paying for college, for the most part, which is terribly unfair. You’ve done a great job. You’ve done your two years at a local school with a full award, commuting all the way, when you really wanted to go away to college and had the academic profile to do so. Only problem was that parents would not pay what they were deemed able by the fin aid and merit award folks at the colleges. Now you have a chance to go to some great schools, get away from home, and only have two years to go, showing that you can and have done great college work, to get into schools like the ones that have accepted you as a transfer and with aid packages. You’ve also saved enough so that your parents don’t have even pay what their expected contributuions are, but Papa doesn’t want to pay anything other than incidental costs because he’s gotten used to that. I get it. and Im sorry. But you’ve done well under adverse circumstances and shown you are a great student. I think you will go far with your perseverance and ability to function well even when you don’t like where you have to perform. That is a very valuable trait.

117

@FCCDAD‌ The decree actually says that my dad will pay half the cost of Missouri State University, which isn’t the university I’m attending. He messed up, though and my mom’s lawyer laughed when she read it.

Missouri State’s cost per credit hour is $205.

I’m not sure about this, because I haven’t read the divorce decree, but my dad said he would pay half of whatever Missouri State didn’t cover.

118

From a legal standpoint, yes, it really matters what it says.

If what OP says is accurate (and we still don’t know whether she has seen or quoted the actual decree), the intent seems to to split the actual cost fairly between the parents, up to a maximum of the actual cost at MSSU. The school was presumably named as the standard so that there couldn’t be any huge surprise costs. I repeat: the intent seems to have been to split the actual costs, up to that limit. That is not unusual; you don’t want to agree to what you think is half the cost at State U and then get handed a bill for half of the cost at Ivy, so you put the limit in the clause on what the parents must pay. So even if the child does get accepted to an expensive school, neither parent can be forced to pay more than the decree says.

My arguments are an attempt to predict the legal requirements, based on the information we’ve been given. I don’t know his finances; I don’t know any more than anyone else here does. But IF what OP said is correct, neither parent is legally obligated to pay more than what MSSU costs (zero).

Yes, Dad and Mom were both lucky that she earned a full ride and they didn’t have to pay anything out of pocket. Dad and Mom get to split the zero cost. Yay for them!

And according to OP, he has paid what he is required to pay and is still paying full support for his other child. Sort of the literal opposite of a “deadbeat.”

Would it be nice if he helped her out? Sure it would. But my opinion is not on whether it would be nice; my opinion is on whether he is legally obligated. And from what she has told us, I think he would not be legally obligated.

Does she really need help? NO. She wants to transfer, but she has a full ride that she can continue to ride out for two more years. She does not NEED Mom or Dad to provide money.

My view (this is not legal advice) is that trying to get money out of Dad, on the facts given by OP, would be a huge waste of time, effort, and money (attorney’s fees), accomplishing nothing and aggravating what is already a difficult situation for all of them.

119

@FCCDAD Since Chelsea doesn’t not want to pursue legal action the legal agreement which we have not seen is not important. What remains is the human aspect. Her dad told he that he would support her and now he won’t. People mention not alienating her father but I think that he is the one who should be concerned about not alienating Chelsea with his lies. She is a smart and ambitious young woman who is worth knowing and deserves her parents support. She will survive if she has to take out 7k to cover her dad’s lack of support but I do not think their relationship will be the same.

120

@FCCDAD And you keep mentioning that the parents pay nothing but on June 2014 Chelsea said, “The one thing that I should mention is that my mom works at MSSU. She became a professor so that I could graduate debt free.” So credit where credit is due. They are not LUCKY that she has a free ride. Her MOTHER planned it and changed her life for her kids.