Northeast public universities that can feel like a small school? Recommended honors colleges/LLCs?

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Hi everyone,

My son (11th grade) likes small schools, but will require substantial merit aid to afford an SLAC (thanks to this board, we have a great list of SLACs with merit aid to check out). I’d like him to also have find state schools that he likes, preferably ones with (1) a strong intellectual experience in social sciences/humanities, including significant opportunities for small discussion-based classes, and (2) some sort of structure to make a bigger school feel smaller (honors college, LLCs, other interest-based housing).

Our state flagship is UMass Amherst, which is a great school, but in-state admission to the honors college is extremely competitive so I’d like to have other good options (but he will definitely apply to UMass). He would like to stay within a 6-7 hour drive of Boston if possible.

So far, in addition to UMass Amherst we plan to look at:
UMass Lowell
UVM
UMaine Orono
SUNY New Paltz

Other schools we should consider? I’m especially interested in schools with a strong honors college experience.

Stats:
unweighted GPA: 3.9 (on track to be top 10% of his class, possibly top 5%)
will have 9 APs by graduation (1 in 10th, 4 in 11th, 4 in 12th, across all core subjects). Only test he has taken so far is APWH (5)
SAT: 1490 (780R, 710 math–first attempt, will retest in March. His PSAT taken 3 weeks later was much higher, so hoping his math score goes up)
will probably be National Merit Semi-Finalist (SSI: 226)
Strong but not extraordinary ECs in music, theater, & debate, community service
undecided major but thinking about political science, psychology, international relations
Budget: 45-50k (I know he will need merit $ at most OOS schools for this to work)

Thank you!

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At UVM I would encourage him to look into the Liberal Arts Scholars program (LASP)- it is only for freshman year, and some kids do transfer into honors after but some kids decide honors is not needed/wanted. Small liberal arts type classes taken together as a cohort within a certain academic area. It’s a great program that I think UVM should promote more.

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So some schools are a bit out of geography, but I’m not sure what type of small classes he might get at some of the schools you listed. And when you say 6-7 hour drive, some flights will be much shorter. And these schools will cost in the range or lower than you seek.

But my daughter goes to College of Charleston and is in Honors - but all her classes are relatively small - Honors or otherwise - and on top of that she’s in the Fellows Program and International Scholars program - which are both smaller cohorts in Honors. Charleston is an easy, short flight, and with the enrichment in those programs, can make a great choice. She just spent the semester in DC working at a think tank (and taking two classes with the 12 kids from different South Carolina public universities) who lived together in DC. They have a huge NE population. He might have a shot at being a Fellow with those #s.

Christopher Newport in Virginia is another smaller public college. William & Mary it’s not academically -but it is a fine university, smaller, and likely will have smaller classes. You can look into it. It’s where Cassidy Hubbard went - so their folks can do well. It may be a bit harder to get into but might fit better with what you’re asking.

St. Mary’s of Maryland is a very small school - it’s the public Honors college in Maryland. For that fact, and it’s south but again a flight, Wilkes Honors College at FAU is 500 people, not on campus but its own - you might check it out.

I think it’s tough to find “directionals” or branch campuses that will give you the “girth” that you’re looking for.

You might also check some schools with merit - like a Scranton or Providence - that have religion but may offer what you are seeking including budget.

Finally, I see you say NMSF - so forget budget - Tulsa is free - and then you have the Maine/Alabama and others of the world that will be near free- and some have programs within Honors - like at Bama - Randall Rsearch, Blount, etc. - and the commute isn’t “that bad” - and you are not even spending $45-$50K over four years - let alone one!!

Hope that helps.

Charleston Fellows Program - College of Charleston (cofc.edu)

International Scholars - College of Charleston (cofc.edu)

Honors Program - Honors Program - Christopher Newport University (cnu.edu)

FAU | Wilkes Honors College - Homepage

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We will check out the LASP when we visit UVM; thank you!

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Would you consider University of Delaware?

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My daughter graduated from UD honors with very similar stats (9 AP’s with 4’s/5’s all accepted by the university, rest honors, 1 B freshman year, 5th in her class, 34 act), $17,000 a year in merit. She’s now in grad school at BU.

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Thank you! I have seen some of your posts about CofC before & those programs sound amazing.

I should have said earlier that he is LGBTQ+ & does not want to attend college in a state that he perceives as having LGBTQ±unfriendly laws (which includes both Oklahoma & Alabama). This knocks out many of the biggest NMSF scholarships (except for UMaine, which looks like a good prospect for him). I know that Charleston has LGBTQ±friendly spaces, but the state has proposed several laws that concern us. We will do some more research–thank you for the suggestion.

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Would definitely consider Delaware–did you find that there are effective make-a-big-school-small programs?

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Delaware isn’t a ginormous flagship university. My kids didn’t attend but knew a number of kids who did and loved it.

I will caution you…don’t assume a smaller college will have all smaller classes. That’s not completely true. Plus once your student gets to courses within their major, they likely will find smaller classes anywhere. I’m speaking from experience.

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Have you looked at URI? And make sure he considers that there might be large classes for the intros- Micro/Macro economics, Psych 1, Introductory Statistics (which anyone interested in Psych or Poli Sci should take) but after that, he’d likely be in small lectures or tiny seminars.

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I know some people like UConn Honors. I personally do not know much about it, but I get the sense it is one of the ones where the main benefits are priority housing, priority registration, and better access to research opportunities–which is no small thing.

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There are smaller northeastern publics that are supposed to be like LACs.

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Check out Pitt and the Frederick’s honors program. Honors has lots of opportunities for small classes and independent research.
Pitt is rolling admissions and website recommends applying early for the most merit consideration

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One daughter had a similar desire for a small school, with a similar budget restriction. The highly selective LACs in the northeast of the US (where we live) can be quite expensive which was a problem for us (I was mostly retired before she started university). The NPCs for selective New England LACs were quite discouraging.

I agree with the schools that you are considering. U.Mass Amherst is of course very large but a good school. U.Mass Lowell is a bit smaller, but very urban with three campuses. I do not know to what extent a student can have their courses limited to one of the three campuses (would this make it feel smaller?). UVM is smaller than U.Mass Amherst, has a good honors college, and is in an attractive small city. It can be expensive out of state but has merit aid for out of state students (and the NPC did accurately predict merit aid back when we were looking at it).

We also looked at small universities in eastern Canada. Only one (Bishop’s, in Quebec) is within 6 hours (more like 4) of Boston. Quebec is currently struggling with funding for out of province students which would concern me. Mount Allison (in New Brunswick) is however only about 8 1/2 hours from Boston, and is usually the top ranked “small primarily undergraduate” university in Canada. Mount Allison would be within budget, is very good for social/studies and humanities, and would be a safety given your son’s stats. We liked it a lot and my youngest very seriously considered going there. The other two schools that we looked at (Acadia and St Francis Xavier) would be quite a bit further coming from Boston, although Acadia could be reached via a short flight from Boston to Halifax.

“Significant opportunities for small discussion-based classes,” and “LGB friendly” would both apply. First semester freshman year she had two classes with 15 or fewer students, and over 4 years her largest class was 90 students.

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My daughter lived in the honors dorm at UD which is very nice, and I think honors are guaranteed housing every year. My daughter felt it was worth it, her boyfriend dropped the last year because he couldn’t get the honors credits to work with his schedule. It’s a beautiful fun campus, my daughter never used a shuttle on or off campus.

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That’s fair - and I couldn’t tell you how to make decisions.

I will tell you U of Alabama scores a 4.5 on the Campus Pride Index, far higher than many schools in liberal states.

C of C only a 3.5 - but yes, the city is very liberal and there is definitely PDA on the campus. My daughter says a sizable chunk of the student body is lgbtq. By sizable, I don’t know if she means 2% or 20% - but I’ve seen PDA on many occasions.

Tulsa as a city is right but has a lot of leftward components and has democratic mayors in its recent history (three in last 30 years). Because of work travel, I’ve spent a lot of time in states like Alabama, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc. and as a Jewish person people always assume there’s some sort of bias against me, etc. and honestly, I’ve never seen any bias - against, Jews, minorities, LGBTQ. Now I’m not LGBTQ so I can’t equivalate to what a member of the community would feel - but my son who went to Alabama laughs at the “conservative” rankings - he’s like people are there to study, watch football and party…are they from rich white families…yes but are they outward in beliefs - no, etc. He thinks all that stuff is perception from the surrounds and not steeped in reality - and again, on a work basis, and I work with outspoken people because they are car dealers and so you hear the “guy talk” but I’ve only had one person ever say something that was “inappropriate” when it comes to marginalizing a group of people (in Louisiana). I personally think a lot of these schools or areas get shorted based on perception…but the day to day is not always run this way - but again, that totally depends on the individual and circumstance - and it’s up to their comfort level.

How state laws impact an individual is obviously up to that person and not for me to say - and obviously state laws matter in regards to how schools have to act (or react) but if your student is in the campus environment, I would personally look at the school far more than I would the state laws - but that’s me and I’m not LGBTQ. But that’s the day to day living if you will.

In other words, Michigan is liberal - but your student probably wouldn’t do well at Hillsdale.

I’m really just trying to come up with ideas to meet what you noted. Maybe St. Mary’s of Maryland or even Salisbury but both are in rural areas - and I don’t know about the campus culture - but St. Marys is small and is the public Honors College of Maryland - so probably worth a look.

I’m not sure a U Maine or the “other SUNYs” necessarily deliver academically to what you are seeking, etc. was my concern.

Totally understand the concerns though and each person has to evaluate in context for themselves.

There are obviously smaller publics in the region, etc. and I was even thinking a little further - like a Millersville or a Keene State but I don’t know (they might) how much academic heft they might bring vs. what’s needed.

Best of luck in the search.

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How well do you know the SUNY’s? Binghamton for Humanities, Stonybrook for Sciences, Albany for Poli Sci, Purchase for the Performing Arts-- these universities are every bit as “academic” as some of the schools that are frequently touted on CC as “great values” or “lots of National Merit Scholars”. If you don’t know much about a state’s U’s it’s ok to stand down. But you often suggest colleges which are greatly inferior to those I’ve listed above at least in pure “academic” terms. Lots of reasons a kid might want rah rah sports and fun frats and sunshine- but don’t confuse popularity among 18 year old’s with intellectual heft.

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I said the “other” SUNYs.

By that I mean, there’s a handful of SUNYs that are well known “nationally” and they are sizable - but for someone with such academic credentials, an Oswego or Oneonta or Plattsburgh or Fredonia or Brockport types might not give him the academic cohort he’s seeking. It’s for the same reason I didn’t mention Pitt or Delaware - too big for this student - but at the same time, the SUNY schools deliver a big bang for the buck - but if going to a smaller SUNY, then with NMF, why not just go to U Maine?

Wheras a SB, Bing, Buff, and maybe even Albany Honors certainly are academically esteemed but of course they’re bigger schools and I’m trying to shy away from that given the desires. That’s why I said “other” SUNYs - implying that these that you’re mentioning are great but not what OP is seeking.

But if the student wants smaller - then by all means look into the SUNY campuses.

Maybe New Paltz Honors fits.

Typically a student with these kind of stats does want to go to a brand name. My daughter’s school’s reputation isn’t overly rigorous - and I wouldn’t recommend it for a student like this unless they were able to access the higher level programs, for which it’s then fantabulous.

Please go back to what OP said - from what they’re seeking - and that’s what I attempted to provide. They state it clearly in the first message.

I dont’ see rah rah or poor academics in St. Marys (Honors College), Wilkes, C of C Fellows, and Tulsa. I also suggested Christopher Newport due to its size, LAC type focus, and budget. I even mentioned Scranton and Providence to be in geographic range but noted the religious component.

I pointed out Bama solely because they are seeking housing and discussion based programs and they noted the NMSF which will likely because NMF - and they have special programs such as Blount - which provide this - and housing. OP has since expressed LGBTQ concern.

I didn’t mention a Pitt, for example, because it’s too big, Honors is open to anyone (to take classes, not the formal Honors) and it won’t make budget.

I don’t just throw names for sake of throwing up names and certainly not names that you accused me of - but thank you as always.

And I didn’t eschew the top SUNYs - but they didn’t (in my opinion) fit what OP is seeking.

Thank you

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I would vote for these choices over Keene State and Millersville for academic depth.

H wondering if the OP has looked at the Colleges that Change Lives list of schools. Those are smaller and there might be something that piques their student’s interest.

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That’s a good list (CLTC) - geographic depending - and many offer significant merit.

They may not work socially (I don’t know) but a Beloit, Kalamazoo, Guilford, Ursinsus, Wooster types all have big merit but from the OPs first sentence it doesn’t seem like they need any more LACs or SLACs.

And I agree with the U Maines over Millersville and Keene State based on student quality they’d be able to associate with - but again, trying to find some hidden names for OP and these were more for size, and meeting the needs in regards to research but not overall…which is why I came up with some schools further away (but flight accessible).

They clearly already have the top part of the list developed.

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