Northwestern VS University of Chicago Please Help!

collegepat · August 10, 2009, 3:07pm

Hey guys I really appreciate any input on this issue. Well my stats are not stellar but they are pretty good and with a good boost on the ACT (aiming for 31,32), I will have a decent shot at both Northwestern and the University of Chicago (my dream schools). However I am torn between these two schools.

I am applying to the Questbridge College Match program and will have to decide the ranking of the schools by October 12th. I know a little early but any input now will be appreciated. Which one should I rank first and which one should I rank second?

I am interested in majoring in economics and political science/international relations. In a college I am looking to work hard in terms of academics but also want a pretty good social life (ie parties, intramural, games, etc.)

Northwestern
Pros
Beautiful Campus

Excellent Economics program

Good Political Science program

Better Social Life (correct me if I am wrong)

Interested in the Kellogg undergraduate program

Division I sports (not that I care too much)

Chicago
Pros
Excellent Economics program (excellent teachers, nobel prize)

Good Political Science program??? (couldn’t find rankings for undergrad)

Core curriculum (don’t know if that is a plus or minus. I want to see if I like different subjects but I am pretty goal oriented)

Offers fun and unique activities (Scavenger Hunt, Intramural competitions b/w houses)

Unique learning environment

Want to get into Chicago Booth School of Business in the future (that might be a plus for Northwestern though)

Which one is harder to do well in? (hence As and Bs) Also which one has a better study abroad program. I am not sure if you can quantify this. Thank you for your input. It is greatly appreciated.

aabbcc1789 · August 10, 2009, 3:31pm

lol which one is harder to do well in? did you know that university of chicago’s unofficial motto is “where fun goes to die”?

elsijfdl · August 10, 2009, 5:12pm

I don’t want to dig up the sources right now but Chicago and Northwestern’s CAS both have ~3.3 average GPA

phuriku · August 10, 2009, 5:37pm

Yes, but that doesn’t imply anything.

suppasonic · August 11, 2009, 2:30am

The two schools are fairly significantly different. Yes Northwestern has the better social life, although UofC people will just say their social life is just different. A Big Ten school that is 35-40% Greek and is fairly preprofessional is going to have a bigger party life than the more cerebral Chicago. Evanston is also much prettier than Hyde Park.

IIRC, about 30% of Northwestern studies abroad. I’m actually off to South America in two weeks and know more than two-three dozen who are off to various places around the world. I have absolutely no idea how UofChicagos study abroad program is. I think Northwestern could offer a few more options outside of Europe and be a little more flexible with non-NU sponsored programs, but the staff is organized, helpful, and available. Most people go fall quarter.

As for something that most CCers get completely wrong - your undergraduate ties to a university rarely will help you, and in fact could hurt your chances of getting into that business school. So don’t pick either because of Booth or Kellogg…because undergrad probably wont help.

collegealum314 · August 11, 2009, 12:36pm

U. of Chicago has the reputation for being hard (in fact, probably top 5 in academic rigor in the US.) I didn’t go to U. of Chicago, though, so I make the comparison personally. However, U. of Chicago forces you to take the core curriculum (for first year?), so it may hurt your GPA if you have a weakness in one of these areas. It’s probably easier to pick and choose classes outside your major at Northwestern.

I don’t know if you’ve been there, but the U. of Chicago is also very beautiful in a different way. However, it is in a bad area of town. I think that’s the only drawback.

Like people have said, don’t make your decision based on trying to get into business school in the future. If you are good with standardized tests and are confident you can get 3.5/4.0 at a good college, you can get into top business schools.

Also, Northwestern probably has a less intense feel to it than U. of Chicago.

elsijfdl · August 11, 2009, 4:26pm

Both have pretty much exactly the same average GPA. Both have pretty much exactly the same test scores. Both have pretty much exactly the same in top 10% of their HS class. This would strongly imply both are pretty much exactly the same difficulty.

Sam_Lee · August 11, 2009, 9:37pm

Our grading curve is no easier. We just don’t advertise or whine about it as much. ;)

phuriku · August 11, 2009, 10:14pm

Actually, that’s a pretty weak argument. You’re correlating (and thereby confusing) SAT scores and class rank with academic dedication and work ethic. And by the way, Chicago and NU probably don’t have the same GPA. Northwestern has an average GPA of 3.41. Chicago’s was 3.26 last time recorded.

elsijfdl · August 11, 2009, 10:34pm

LOL. I’m just going to leave this statement out in the open figuring it will affirm itself of its own ridiculousness.

Now I think you are the one “correlating (and thereby confusing)” level of applications and academic quality.

[The</a> myth of the engineer, debunked - FORUM](<a href=“http://media.www.dailynorthwestern.com/media/storage/paper853/news/2005/04/28/Forum/The-Myth.Of.The.Engineer.Debunked-1918306.shtml]The”>http://media.www.dailynorthwestern.com/media/storage/paper853/news/2005/04/28/Forum/The-Myth.Of.The.Engineer.Debunked-1918306.shtml)

[Welcome</a> to the University of Chicago College Report Online](<a href=“http://magazine.uchicago.edu/9810/CollegeReport/seal.htm]Welcome”>Welcome to the University of Chicago College Report Online)

“It may be surprising to note that it is Weinberg with the lowest average of 3.35” (written in 2005)

“the fact that Chicago itself is up to a 3.3 (B+) average GPA” (written before 1999)

I’ll take the blatantly incorrect number you cited to be self-revealing in that you have no idea what you’re talking about. But I think your logical leaps, argumentative half-steps, and shameless generalizations already did that.

Let’s hope you apply a little more “academic rigor” to your Chicago classes, if that is where you go.

elsijfdl · August 11, 2009, 10:40pm

I’ll take the fact that you edited out pretty much your entire post to be indicative of the fact that you understand what you were saying was complete garbage.

There are no bragging rights that come with being the “harder school” so I don’t know why you would go to such lengths as to compromise argumentative integrity to defend that title for Chicago.

phuriku · August 12, 2009, 12:01am

I have PMed you the inappropriate parts of my response, elsijfdl. When I talk, I want to be condescending to you, not to the entirety of Northwestern, which has a myriad of incredibly intelligent students.

[William</a> Cottrell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cottrell]William”>William Cottrell - Wikipedia)

Then why has Chicago retained a huge PhD production rate in comparison with Northwestern while having lower SAT scores? The Chicago admissions office has been very outspoken about the fact that they don’t believe that SAT scores and grades are as important to academic success as most other colleges think. Same with a number of LACs, many of which also maintain very high PhD production rates.

SAT scores in reality say very little about a student past how much test training their parents could afford. I know many people here who scored 2400 on their SATs who are much less bright than people who scored 1900. Which is exactly why there are 2400s rejected and 1900s accepted at Chicago quite often, which you probably won’t see at NU too often.

[Northwestern[/url</a>]
[url=<a href=“http://gradeinflation.com/chicago.html]University”>http://gradeinflation.com/chicago.html]University</a> of Chicago GPA Trends](<a href=“http://gradeinflation.com/Northwestern.html]Northwestern[/url”>Northwestern)

Your articles are taken from 1995 and 2005. Seriously, man.

Nope. I did it because I realized I was on the Northwestern forum, and I didn’t want a flame war. I know from personal experience that NU students react violently to criticism, especially from their big brother on the south side. Really, lighten up.

Sam_Lee · August 12, 2009, 1:50am

^note that elsijfdl used CAS average for comparison, not university-wide.

According to your link, NU had a unversity-wide average of 3.35 in 1999.
“The myth of the engineer, debunked - FORUM” (post #10) says CAS average was .09 lower than univerisity-wide average in 2005. Assuming the same spread in 1999 (reasonable assumption), CAS average that year would be around 3.26, exactly the same as UChicago average in 1999.

The OP wondered which school would be harder for him to do well, not which school sends more students to PhD programs. You can’t say all those LACs with higher PhD production are harder than schools like, say, Berkeley/Cornell. Just because one doesn’t plan to do PhD doesn’t mean he doesn’t want good grades.

The HS rank says how well students competed in HS. If class ranks are comparable, why would it be harder to compete at UChicago? Because UChicago admission has some magic tool that allows them to pick brighter kids than test scores/class rank indicate while other schools pick dumber/less competitive kids with better scores? Also, I have yet to see any proof that UChicago students would somehow get a lot more motivated while NU (or other schools’) students just become lazier once they get to colleges.

Maybe we all, including you, have our “violent” moments…

monydad · August 12, 2009, 9:38am

Perhaps graduate school leading to PhD is a somewhat more typical game plan for liberal arts college grads than it is for grads of colleges of: engineering,communication,education, journalism, music.

Since U Chicago only has liberal arts students, its % PhD may be higher for this reason alone. This in no way means a Northwestern student with such ambition would be in any way disadvantaged in pursuing that path. More likely it means the student body at Northwestern has somewhat more diverse goals, which is obvious by the existence of the specialty colleges.

What you’d want to know is what % of people of comparable capability who came in actually wanting to eventually pursue PhD ultimately realized that goal, at each school. But this data is not available.

This is one of the reasons these % PhD tables are misleading.

If the student body as a whole is slightly more pre-professionally oriented, preferring to pursue law, medicine, business or whatever over Phd path at a somewhat higher rate, this would also impact the %, but in no way disadvantage a student there who wanted a PhD down the road. There is nothing “worse” about these other objectives, but they don’t all lead equally to pursuit of PhD.

WCASParent · August 12, 2009, 9:42am

I have no dog in this fight, and I don’t know what the deal is with you phuriku, but to this objective observer it looks like you are the one who needs to “lighten up.” Please, take a step back and re-read this thread. You really come across as having a chip on your shoulder. Chill.

elsijfdl · August 12, 2009, 3:40pm

Ha, you should see the PM he sent me. A manic, Nietzche-like rant (only in the negative sense) about how Chicago is ranked above Columbia this year and how everyone at Northwestern suffers from an “inferiority complex” around Chicago being so much better!

elsijfdl · August 12, 2009, 3:51pm

By the way, speaking of inferiority complexes, phuriku may be too young to remember this, but I’m not:

“Concerned that a continued slide in rankings might affect the University of Chicago’s reputation, Michael Behnke, the vice president for university relations and dean of college enrollment, went to Washington, D.C., with other top officials to meet with magazine researchers and editors.”

[U</a>. of C. jumps to 9th place in ranking of universities](<a href=“http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/1096600551.html?dids=1096600551:1096600551&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Aug+18,+2006&author=Jodi+S+Cohen,+Tribune+higher+education+reporter&pub=Chicago+Tribune&edition=&startpage=8&desc=U.+of+C.+jumps+to+9th+place+in+ranking+of+universities+;+New+look+at+numbers+boosts+its+standing]U”>http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/1096600551.html?dids=1096600551:1096600551&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Aug+18,+2006&author=Jodi+S+Cohen,+Tribune+higher+education+reporter&pub=Chicago+Tribune&edition=&startpage=8&desc=U.+of+C.+jumps+to+9th+place+in+ranking+of+universities+;+New+look+at+numbers+boosts+its+standing)

Chicago was actually so self-conscious of its ranking when it was at #15 that they sent officials to meet with US News editors to devise ways they could change how they reported numbers in order to improve their standing!

elsijfdl · August 12, 2009, 4:19pm

By the way, getting back to what the OP asked:

One thing phuriku said that was probably, to some degree, accurate, is that Chicago sends proportionally more students to PhD programs. If you are interested in graduate academia, depending on the field, Chicago may be a good way to go.

The flipside to this is I, like many NU students, accepted a job offer with a company that doesn’t even recruit at Chicago’s campus. This is a common phenomenon. In fact, in my interviews (finance, mostly) I never once even encountered a Chicago student at a super-day, whereas I saw a plethora of students from Notre Dame, Michigan (Ross), UofI, Wisconsin, even Iowa.

aabbcc1789 · August 12, 2009, 5:47pm

lol chicago being better? please…northwestern rejected them a while back

[The</a> Universities of Chicago: Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.northwestern.edu/about/historic-moments/academics/the-universities-of-chicago.html]The”>http://www.northwestern.edu/about/historic-moments/academics/the-universities-of-chicago.html)

IBkid2011 · August 13, 2009, 9:54am

I live in Chicago and I am a part of the IB Program. We IB Students get to go to University of Chicago routinely. The campus is pretty gothic Harry Potter-like and the atmosphere there is tense - its highly competitive, ranks higher than half the Ivies, and the students there really want to succeed. One student, a sophomore, even told me that U of C is where “fun comes to die”.
I also got to tour Northwestern last month - its much more my scence. Located in the suburbs (Evanston), it is breathtaking. And you are right about Polisci there, its amazing. Becuase of your interest in Economics and Kellogg, I’m guessing you want to do something in Business or Finance. If thats the case, I SO recommend something like Kellogg undergrad and then Wharton graduate. Thats pretty powerful. But then too, U of C Economics is worldwide. So either would be a good choice.
In conclusion, I’m heavily Northwestern. It also is more famous than University of Chicago, which, sadly is often mistaken with the state school, Chicago State University (which is a step away from being community college). So go NU!

Northwestern VS University of Chicago Please Help!

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