Norway Has To Teach Refugees That Rape Is Not Okay

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/europe/norway-offers-migrants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

I read that article. It was truly fascinating. It is insane that in the year 2015, there are parts of the country that think that way - that a woman is just up for grabs. I definitely felt that way in rural India and I certainly felt dehumanized in Saudi Arabia.

What a great idea to include that in teaching refugees to adapt to their new country. It is very difficult for immigrants to understand the different cultural norms without having things articulated for them.

@VeryHappy I highly doubt rape is considered a cultural norm in their home countries. I know that isn’t what you meant, but let’s not find excuses for pigs like these men. @Pizzagirl You have NO idea. Most Saudis see women as objects. My sisters’ heartiest wish when we were there was to beat some civility into them.

Well, I guess I was thinking of less significant things like, Never point at someone with your middle finger. I teach English as a Second Language to immigrants and most of them don’t know that simple thing. I can understand how these men would be confused if they’ve only ever seen women completely covered up.

^ To clarify I used pigs to describer rapists, not the refugees. I think the classes are a wonderful idea.

InfinityMan, were you referring to Eritrea? The man in the article said something like (I’m paraphrasing) - in my home country, if a man wants a woman, he just takes her. I think the UN has documented government abuses, including sexual harrassment and rape by government officials. Now, there are bad apples in every bunch, but there’s a huge difference between a bad apple and a bad apple sanctioned by the government.

@Pizzagirl I think they take advantage of the fact that they hold power to rape those girls, but I do believe the country has rules against sexual assault and the such (which are probably circumvented by officials).

There are quite a few natural-born Americans who could use a course like this.

This seems like a good program, kudos to Norway. Can’t wait to see how it’s twisted by certain people :confused:

The class is a great idea. It would never happen, though, in the US where SJWs would make a cultural-equivalence issue out of it.

But did you see how few were in this voluntary course? Like @Pizzagirl it is hard to believe that there are places in the world where attitudes like those of the migrants still exist. And harder to believe that they don’t know this before they come to European countries.

I actually lived in Saudi Arabia for five years. While there are men there that objectify women and treat them like possessions, the MAJORITY of men there treat us with respect. Just like there are men here on both sides of the issue. I never felt threatened there nor at risk for anything that I don’t fear here. I never felt dehumanized. Quite the contrary. Although I could not work there or drive a car, I felt no desire to do so. I had a driver who treated me much better than any NYC taxi driver did here. The Saudis that we socialized with were polite, respectful and quite friendly. I certainly never feared from them what I have in a bar in downtown Detroit. We have Saudi friends who live here in the U.S. and I would not hesitate for a second to spend time alone with them which is more than I can say for a few American men I know here.

@3bm103 I lived in Saudi for more than a decade, in one of the more progressive areas (the east coast), and my dad worked at an American company (yes, * that * one :slight_smile: ). Yes the men were respectful, but I would still say a lot saw women as objects. I think you’re refrencing the highly educated class (those who went beyond highschool), and those who have lived abroad. If you did then I absolutely agree with you. Here’s the thing though :maybe it’s because you’re American (Saudis like and respect westerners) but I can tell you firsthand that they can be (and in most cases, are) incredibly unpleasant to other foreigners (and down right racist to people from South-East Asia, India and Africa). This wasn’t something I was told or picked up from the news; this something I - and my parents and older siblings for a decade before me - witnessed with our own eyes and ears. It is sort of common knowledge in the Arab world how Saudis treat foreigners in their country, and moreso, women. Not all, certainly, but a large portion of the population. The Saudi friends I have are very nice, however. And romani, I agree. I think EVERY country in the world needs classes to teach some men how to treat women :stuck_out_tongue:

When I was in my son’s apt lobby, the police were there “teaching/lecturing” this foreign male student that in this country it’s not ok to hit your wife. The man was angry that he was being held to US standards, because in his country, his actions were fine.

“Although I could not work there or drive a car, I felt no desire to do so. I had a driver who treated me much better than any NYC taxi driver did here.”

How nice, for women who can afford a servant! How about women who are servants themselves? Especially when they’re from countries in South and Southeast Asia, or the Philippines, who are often held in virtual slavery in Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, and can be raped, beaten, and even killed by their employers without those employers suffering any real consequences?

@3bm103 wrote

You were treated w respect in KSA bcs you were an affluent, (I’m guessing) white, Western expat.

If you were a filipino maid in KSA, would u have been treated w the same level of respect?

And I have a feeling, as I mentioned above, that most filipina maids in Saudi Arabia don’t have drivers to ferry them around! So they’re stuck where they are, basically.

Is a maid in the USA treated with the same level of respect as an affluent, white woman here? And by the way, I’m not white. Explain to me again, how much respect Bill Cosby has for women. I could also name hundreds of other American men who treat women far worse than what I saw while living there.

Of course there are Saudi men who treat women badly. But it’s not ALL Saudi men and no worse than what SOME American men do.

A maid in the USA is treated with a #$@$ of a lot more respect than in Saudi. We typically don’t cut off their arms or stone them to death…

As Muslim women, we actually ask you not to wear the ‘hijab’ in the name of interfaith solidarity

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/12/21/as-muslim-women-we-actually-ask-you-not-to-wear-the-hijab-in-the-name-of-interfaith-solidarity/?postshare=8611450736542589&tid=ss_fb-bottom

The part that relates to this discussion (I’ve highlighted the section in bold):

That’s the culture and beliefs shared by many of the refugees. A few classes will have little impact on changing this “culture”.