<p>“Well then I guess most college students will be unemployable because most do stupid things while in college.”</p>
<p>There’s plenty of fish in the sea.</p>
<p>Ld: You don’t buy it. I hear you. That I’m willing to see the plausibility in the kidding-a-friend explanation is not merely to create an “out” for these students. I don’t care enough about them to give them an out. And yes it’s an excuse, but I don’t think it’s an invented one. I’m buying the explanation because it makes something that seems to me totally incomprehensible — those images are really repellent and not fun to look at — somewhat more understandable. I also believe the comments that they (these particular students, not all students at all theme parties) are sincerely sorry for the offense they’ve caused.</p>
<p>Idmom06 as was clearly stated in the post (#137) all the kids felt terrible when they realized how insensitive what they did appeared. They all apologized immediately. What more would you like??? When can we say with a little understanding and kindness that we don’t condone what you did, but we forgive you for your mistake? When is their apology good enough to be accepted? If you don’t condone giving them an “out,” and you don’t advocate punishement, what do you advocate?</p>
<p>“I would take care you do not cross a line into personal insult.”
Absolutely NO insult intended in any way, I am sorry if it seemed as such to you. I hope it’s ok for me to express my opinions too.</p>
<p>collegemom - please read my posts again. I think I have been clear. My main issue is not with the students. It is with those who would seek to dilute the responsibility of the students. If you do a google search, there are dozens of chatboards where the comments from SCU students and parents range from passive claims of ignorance to overt racist vitriol. If everyone is so remorseful, where is this coming from? I find it offensive that some would paint these partygoers as the victims.</p>
<p>jazzymom - don’t get me wrong. I wish I could buy it. But given what IS proven to be acceptable behavior at SCU(the other theme parties and showing minorities the door), it just doesn’t ring true. Not to say the anonymous poster, or you, or me, are wrong for wanting it to be true.</p>
<p>“My issue is not with the students. It is with those who would seek to dilute the responsibility of the students.”</p>
<p>“If everyone is so remorseful, where is this coming from?”</p>
<p>I personally believe and have always taught my children that if you have a problem with someone, you go directly to that person and talk to them. The problem here is with the students and not some nebulous outside source. It has been stated by a Catholic youth worker who I believe has some affiliation with the situation, that the kids were truly remorseful, and that they apoligized for their behavior. The students are in fact the source of the problem and therefore its resolution lies with them. IMO they deserve our forgiveness.</p>
<p>It’s not for US to forgive. It is for those in their community who were offended by the students’ actions. And actions speak louder than words, as was clearly demonstrated by the facebook pictures. So I applaud them for apologizing. I hope they choose to do more than that though.</p>
<p>As I said, my main issue is not with what these kids choose to do to make amends. It is with those who would create a defense or dilute responsibility. The danger there is by enabling, nothing will change. And I think we all agree change is important.</p>
<p>I’m not sure who you consider to be a nebulous outside source.</p>
<p>“It’s not for US to forgive”</p>
<p>When the pictures were published on an open forum (facebook) they became public. Therefore, they offended most if not all of the people who saw them publically. Being upset and offended by them, I did in fact find that I needed to come to a resolution for my feelings towards the involved students. (forgiveness) Thus I sought out and found the Santa Clara newspaper online and got to the source of the truth. Seeing the context of the situation and learning that the students were truly aware of their insensitivity and had apologized allowed me to forgive them and offer my understanding. Change will only happen through mutual understanding, and kindness.</p>
<p>nebulous outside source</p>
<p>People who can be found through a google search offering up stories of situations that have nothing whatsoever to do with these individuals and what happened at this party. Go to the source.</p>
<p>^How is it there is so much compassion and concern for the party kids, but not much mention of the feelings of those who where alienated by the actions of those kids. Reducing the experiences of someone who actually experiences the environment of SCU and who signs their name to nothing more than those of a ‘nebulous outside source’ doesn’t exactly seem fair. Clearly, from interviews with students and comments from faculty, there does seem to be an issue at this school with inappropriate behavior. Unfortunately, this inappropriate behavior, the seeds of which are disturbing, is not confined to SCU.</p>
<p>I don’t really have compassion for wealthy kids who think mocking the less fortunate or those who just happen to be of different ethnicity is funny, that is true. As an Anglo who has never personally experienced hardship, I don’t really feel it is my place to stand in line to issue forgiveness however. It is not ME who was victimized. But my heart is heavy for my half Hispanic daughter and son, my Hispanic husband and dear in-laws, my Hispanic aunts and uncles on my husband’s and on my side of the family, my Hispanic nieces and nephews. I’ll never know what it feels like to have that sort of joke made at my expense; but they have and will.</p>
<p>Mistakes were made, apologies were made. Amends will be made when these kids truly change their attitude and actions and seek to make minorities feel more welcome at SCU. </p>
<p>My last words on the topic.</p>
<p>I don’t blame you for being upset by this, ldmom. That’s why even as I’m trying to make sense of these parties, I don’t condone them. Even if the kids are targeting just a subset of a larger group, it is painful for the entire group. I don’t know about others, but I’m not apologizing for these kids–just trying to figure out what this recent phenomenon is about.</p>
<p>I too am Hispanic but made of sturdy enough stuff that some party theme does not hurt me to the core. When I see the mostly Hispanic folks doing yard work and framing houses ( and yes no matter where you go that’s just a fact of life) I just think it makes me proud they are working hard to support their families and not looking for government handouts. Too me it is not much different than someone having a stereotypical “preppy” party, a mafia style gangster party, or a bad 70’s look party.</p>
<p>Barron - I think being resilient is admirable, but it shouldn’t be necessary. And I feel exactly the way you do when I see anyone putting in a day of honest work. Respect for an honest work ethic was something drilled home by my parents.</p>
<p>And your post brings up a point. Why is it do we not hear of predominately black, Hispanic or Jewish fraternities/sororities or organizations sponsoring ‘white trash’ or ‘WASP’ parties or parties where they mock each other? There are quite a few stereotypical doozies out there about virtually every ethnic or religious group that exists; so certainly none of us should be exempt (or actually, in a perfect world, all of us should be exempt.)</p>
<p>(And here I thought I had said all I could say… 
)</p>
<p>SCU has almost 5000 undergraduate students. The party noted was off campus and was not sponsored by the college in any way. The notion that the majority of students (or faculty or anyone else) condones what happened at this event is unfounded. There are many many fine students at this university and the poor judgments of some students sadly is being reflected on the whole student body. The vast vast majority of the students were not in attendance at this party.</p>
<p>^ I don’t think it was stated that the majority of the students condoned the party and certainly faculty has been vocal in condemning the party. But there is a healthy level of support out there for the party-goers by those who think what they did was not that bad. I think though SCU students have hosted several similarly repugnant parties in the last couple of months, the issue is larger than just one university or one part of the country. We see this sort of thing occuring everywhere…UT-Austin, Texas A&M, Clemson, Johns Hopkins, Tarleton, University of Chicago.</p>
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<p>And with this I agree with you. It’s not an isolated incident at SCU. It’s in a lot of places, sadly. How do the posters here suggest that university officials police party themes for off campus events over which they have no control.</p>
<p>Another story about being politically incorrect – Check this out <a href=“http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/304644_highmaintenance22.html?source=mypi[/url]”>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/304644_highmaintenance22.html?source=mypi</a>
This story is all over the news. I just picked this particular link because it has a good picture of the sign. What now, we are offending all the b-i-t-c-h-e-s in the world? 
(jk) So it isnt ok to use a clever play on words when referring to a female dog? Are we becoming just way too sensitive?
(by the way-- I was kidding when I said they were offending the b-i-t-c-h-e-s. I’ll add an emoticon for clarification I understand whose sensitivities might be ruffled). I just think its silly. There are enough other things in the world to get riled up about.</p>
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<p>The above reply is from DD, an SCU student. She is right…the media does eat this sort of thing up. It doesn’t make the actions of the party planners right. But it’s the truth. From my observation SCU administration is very sensitive to diversity issues, and the school itself (and all students) is heavily involved in the surrounding communities via service projects (which btw DO help these young and fortunate students understand some of the issues facing less fortunate folks than themselves).</p>
<p>jym - I really don’t think bigotry and a scatological play on words are the same thing. I think most people in your article are not offended about some prejudice or bias, merely about what appears to be a curse word being prominently displayed in their community.</p>
<p>thumper - I also don’t think what happened is something that is the responsibility of SCU. I don’t advocate formal University punishment because I believe the ultimate consequences will be felt by these students later…perhaps when they interview for a job or request a faculty recommendation or even if they find themselves having difficulty in the workplace relating to others who are different.</p>
<p>The big overriding question, imho, is WHY these students think this sort of activity is humorous or fun. It’s more a question for the students and their parents who I think who should be asking themselves ‘why do I, or does my kid, think it’s cool to put down others’. And this isn’t just a question for SCU students and parents. </p>
<p>I think the discussion is good though. The intensity of the media scrutiny may not be comfortable for some and we all may not end up agreeing about the issue, but it beats the alternative.</p>
<p>ldmom-
My point is, there will always be someone offended by things people do. I am not comparing the sign to bigotry, and the sign isn’t making fun of anyone. But none the less, it has offended people and had made front page news. That was my point. </p>
<p>I just returned from seeing “Spamalot”. Even though they make light of Jews, gays, Broadway divas, etc, it wasn’t offensive. We discussed this issue in the car on the way home. When is is ok to make fun of a minority group? Who decides if/when this is ever ok? My s’s response was “the audience decides” (meaning whoever hears it, not specifically the theater audience). My h. thought that humor often involves someone feeling pain at some level-- from slapstick comedy to parody, from true physical pain to sarcasm or embarassment. I didn’t quite agree, as the clever plays on words do not involve pain. They were just witty. (My favorite-- a big monster fellow hanging above the King, saying “B-low me”. King Arthur backs away in disgust, at which point the ogre points to the hill, making it clearer that he was saying “Be-low me”. I guess you had to be there. Some of the humor was very subtle, but clever. Parts of the play made me think that parody wasn’t offensive when it was being just “silly” (thats the word that came to mind). But whats to say what was silly to me wasn’t hurtful or offensive to someone else?</p>