<p>I never said people are “naturally compassionate.” I don’t remember if anyone here did. On the other hand, I don’t think the tendency to be racist is deeply ingrained, either.</p>
<p>1- Racist behavior isn’t limited to turning on the fire hoses or letting the police dogs loose,</p>
<p>2 - We can’t look into people’s hearts, but we can, do and should judge (and be judged) by our conduct,</p>
<p>3 - One is always free to make an ass of her/himself, but s/he must the accept the consequences - - even unintended consequences,</p>
<p>4 - What the offending students lack is civility (to act civilly is to never unintentionally offend others); if they didn’t know what they were doing was offensive, they should appologize and learn from the mistake - - not make excuses for their bad behavior.</p>
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<p>while I agree with most of what you say, I think the above quoted statement is reaching. I would say that many times, even when someone is acting civilly (is that a word?), other people can react or feel offended by something that person says or does. I mean, come on, have you ever been around a bunch of women? or worse, high school girls? People get their feathers ruffled all the time! And usually over nothing!</p>
<p>BTW, before someone says I am sexist - I am a woman and I know what we’re like.</p>
<p>looked it up - civilly is a word, just looked funny to me</p>
<p>Allmusic, I watched the youtube film. I haven’t seen the Borat movie, but if the clip is anything like the rest of the movie, it’s not really up my alley.</p>
<p>Interesting that he won the Golden Globe (Hollywood Foreign Press) for best comedy actor. I guess maybe members of the foreign press don’t find his humor offensive. Do you think Europeans are more tolerant of racially insensitive humor than Americans? I don’t know, just curious.</p>
<p>“…mean that’s okay for a group of affluent college students to mock this community?” </p>
<h2>Okay, for the fourth or so time–I never said it was “okay.” </h2>
<p>ag - then why post the link? Please explain how you consider it pertinent to the original thread.</p>
<p>I didn’t know that we weren’t allowed to stray - seems a common thing on cc. Sorry, I’ll bow out…</p>
<h2>“I guess maybe members of the foreign press don’t find his humor offensive. Do you think Europeans are more tolerant of racially insensitive humor than Americans? I don’t know, just curious.”</h2>
<p>Borat is completely different situation.</p>
<p>In the youtube clip, what Borat is doing is not eliciting laughs at the expense of Jews. He is busting the ignorant fools in the audience who thought it was really cute to join in and sing along. That is what the movie is about. Shining a little light into hearts and minds. ;)</p>
<p>Ever heard the phrase ‘joke’s on you’?</p>
<p><em>I</em> know that’s what the movie is about, IDmom. </p>
<p>But the audience didn’t, and the fact that they all thought it was so hilarious that they had to join in (without a single member objecting, leaving, looking uncomfortable…on the contrary, they were really hootin’ ‘n hollerin’) sure shows something…which I believe is that deep down, most people are pretty racist.</p>
<p>ldmom: I, not ag, posted the link to the latino teenage illegitimate birthrate problem. It seems many kids at this party were pretending to be pregnant latino girls. This is apparently an obvious social problem in California. It is probably something kids at the party do not respect, so they were ridiculing/mocking it, as some kids mock rappers at parties. Again, I’m not sure this makes them racist, or in need of further diversity training.</p>
<p>^I’m so sorry!! Ag please forgive! </p>
<p>Allmusic - I was responding to ag’s response to your post.</p>
<p>hh - I think you’ve made a valid point. But I would think that perhaps Anglos should first look to things in their own culture they don’t respect when looking for a party theme. It is unseemly to be affluent and comfortable and look to those less fortunate when in need of joke butt. And if it is true unwed motherhood among Latinas and in the Latino culture is a social problem (per link), I fail to understand what is funny about the problems of others.</p>
<p>Btw…there are those who would argue that certain aspects of the rap culture are creatively important and meaningful. Rap theme parties where white kids dress up like black rap stars, to my mind, is not a good way to demonstrate disrespect for a certain aspect of the music (profane, sexist lyrics)…and, not for a moment, do I think the intent of these parties is social commentary.</p>
<p>^^^That’s where their years of diversity training come in–bit of rebellion going on here, I think.</p>
<p>hh- I’m not buying the rebellion thing. We are talking about a bully mentality and I don’t think it’s right to try and pass it off as some sort of ‘understandable reaction’ to having political correctness crammed down one’s throat.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what “diversity training” is, and if it’s what I think it is, I’m sure glad my co. qualifies as a small-business concern so we don’t have to deal with any of this mandatory training nonsense so we can concentrate on…let’s see…making a profit? With about 1/3 of our staff sponsored on an H1-B, no one makes an issue out of it. We’re all working towards a common cause.</p>
<p>I guess I’m fortunate enough to live in an area where “diversity” is everywhere, and we really don’t have to go out of our way to seek it out or laud it. It’s really not that big of a deal. The more you bring up the diversities, the more you are forcing people to acknowledge them. Rather than everyone concentrating on celebrating our diversities, why not concentrate on what makes us similar? </p>
<p>My own kids, in our very middle-class public HS, tend to gravitate towards those they are the most confortable with, socially and scholastically. Is it any surprise they are an ethnically-mixed bunch? Not really, nor should they be commended for being so.</p>
<p>ldmom:</p>
<p>I really hate repeating myself in posts, but that’s all I can do here. Regarding this one specific birthday party, in the context described in the comments cited in post #137 (compassionate alum), I don’t think these were callous, hateful young people who despise Latinos. They made a choice that was dumb and insensitive, but not IMO deliberately cruel and certainly not soul destroying, when they decided to dress up as negative stereotypes in order to “roast” their friend, the host and birthday boy. In the context of that party, there was probably no outraged reaction at all and there were Latinos in the group, including the half-Mexican host. They were all friends. Clearly, they felt comfortable enough with the friendship to think that they could take some liberties by joking about stereotypes. To the outside world, obviously, they were dead wrong. </p>
<p>I did read all those other comments, both on the s.c. newspaper website earlier and when they were posted again here and they don’t change how I regard this particular event. I agree with Compassionate Alum. I think a lot of the anger and outrage being expressed by the other commentators comes from a visceral reaction after seeing the Facebook photos, with the students wearing those costumes in show-off poses, not the least embarrassed or contrite as they would be later. I can see how it raises hackles. But I just think most of that reaction comes from viewing the photos out of the context in which the students decided to wear them. And then the outrage at these photos is fed by general disgust at “these parties” that have taken place elsewhere and where, perhaps, the intent of partygoers was altogether different. Maybe I continue to be missing something by seeing this party differently. But I have viewed it differently from the first time that I clicked on the website for the s.c.newspaper and read, “The party’s host, also an athlete, is half-Mexican.” So for me, what compassionate alum wrote is closer to the truth than those other posts.</p>
<p>Jazzymom…I don’t disagree that there was thoughtlessness involved; but I’m also not so quick to write it off as ‘not deliberate’ or ‘callous’, just because an anonymous poster in a forum claims the party was a ‘roast’, a claim which has not been corroborated by news agencies. </p>
<hr>
<p>From the South Bay news…</p>
<p>"“South of the Border” Isn’t a Party, It’s a Disgrace
Race Themed Party at Santa Clara University Makes One Student Reconsider Her Peers
By Victoria Duran </p>
<p>A few weeks ago I saw a number of photos from a party at the school I go to, Santa Clara University. The photos were of a race-themed party called “South of the Border.” These photos captured Santa Clara University students dressed as domestic service workers, janitors, Cholos and Cholas(Mexican-American gangsters), along with other stereotypical images of Latinos. The moment I saw these images I was sick to my stomach and disgusted. There are no words to describe what I felt, but surely it was not a surprise. Approaching the final quarter of my senior year, I have seen racism on the SCU campus, but in this case, students were publicly displaying a lack of respect for the Latino community. </p>
<p>The “South of the Border” theme has not been the only racist party that has been organized by students here [at SCU]. The individuals who have coordinated the parties have primarily been student athletes and from privileged, upper class backgrounds. The list of parties includes, “Tall tees and 40’s,” “Thug Mansion,” both riffing off of African-American stereotypes, and “Finally Off the Boat, (F.O.B.),” referring to recently arrived immigrants. All of these parties, and there are more, have targeted specific ethnic groups and mocked the individuals of lower classes in portraying us in stereotypical images…</p>
<p>…Back in 2003, when I graduated from Silver Creek High School, my goal was to attend Santa Clara University. As a first generation, college bound, Latina from the Eastside of San Jose I was overcome with such joy when I received the acceptance letter to attend the university of my dreams. This was not only the beginning of a milestone in my life, it was also a special experience that I wanted to share with my family and community, those who have supported me to attain my goal. When I saw the images for the first time, I felt disgusted and speechless. I felt like what I had worked so hard for, to attend a university that could respect me, my people, and our contributions, were no longer valid. </p>
<h2>Many students have provided their personal opinions regarding the theme parties across campus, verbally and through discussion boards on-line, and an overwhelming response has come to the defense of the parties. Much of the popular opinion across the campus is that minority students are over-reacting to a simple party where no malicious intent was present. I’ve heard fellow students say the party is an act of their freedom of speech. Discussion boards online (TheSantaClara.com) included postings from individuals who felt that the “trash” (Latino students) should be sent back to where they came from. And actually, the postings reveal a lot of other sentiments towards minorities on campus, saying that groups such as MEChA-El Frente, the Latino student organization, should not exist."</h2>
<p>It would be nice if it could be corroborated that the intent was to “roast” a friend, not hurt the feelings of people far and wide who were not in attendance at the private off-campus party, but I don’t expect to see any unless the host and other Latino students who were there decide they want to write something or be interviewed for a follow up. I say again that the explanation is plausible to me in the situation of the birthday party and I tend to believe the anonymous commentator mainly because it makes the whole thing less horrifying and allows me to view the students at this party with some understanding rather than with pure contempt. I am not including any other parties in my assessment because I don’t know anything about those parties or how, where, when and who was involved. </p>
<p>This whole theme party thing is totally new to me and this is, actually, the first I’ve heard of any of it. Are they rebelling against P.C. attitudes? Maybe. Or are they imitating the outrageous comedy acts they see on Mad TV or the stand-up comic stuff, which goes anti-PC all the time for shock value and laughs? I don’t know. And for the record, I don’t like it and I’m glad it’s not my D or S in the pictures.</p>
<p>I wish it were true, but I don’t even think it is plausible…</p>
<p>Another article about the problem at SCU, from SantaClara.com…</p>
<p>"Deanna Sainten’s body stiffens when she talks about experiencing racism at a Santa Clara party for the first time. She was a freshman. Her sweatshirt hood covers most of her head and she sits on her small couch where, wrapped in a large soft comforter, her face becomes serious and her warm brown eyes get cold. </p>
<p>“My friend and I went to a party,” Sainten recalled. “And at the door a girl asked us if we knew anyone at the party. We told her a friend of ours invited us, and she told us, ‘we didn’t invite the Multicultural Center.’ My friend asked what she meant and eventually we just got the door shut in our faces.” </p>
<p>Now a graduate student at Santa Clara, Sainten isn’t the only student who has faced racism. Tensions have run high on campus after photos surfaced of athletes in costumes that mocked working class Latinos. But students say stereotyping isn’t the only form of discrimination they experience, that they are also excluded from off-campus parties because of their race…"</p>
<p>"Although the “south of the border” party has been the focus of recent attention, parties with themes like “tall tees and 40s” or “ghetto” that stereotype hip-hop culture, gangs and black or Latino males are also common off campus.</p>
<p>“When those parties happen here,” theatre Department Chair Aldo Billingslea said, “it’s sometimes just a little more painful because this is a place that espouses social justice with students who are that much, supposedly, more aware. It’s just that much more painful.”</p>
<p>Rawls said the parties are about more than humor.</p>
<p>“Don’t pretend to be something you’re not,” Rawls said. “These parties and people at them are a mockery to predominantly the black culture and the Latin culture. You don’t see black students throwing a white-honkey-emo-Ugg party where in order to get in you have to wear Uggs with a skirt and have your daddy’s lawyer sue your way in.”</p>
<p>While there are other themed parties that many deem just as offensive, Sainten notes an important difference.</p>
<p>“It’s one thing for a group of white students to put on a white trash party and have a predominantly white crowd attend this party,” Sainten said. “It is another thing to hold a stereotype party about an isolated group on campus in which most members of the group do not attend. That is not OK.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://media.www.thesantaclara.com/media/storage/paper946/news/2007/02/22/News/Party.Discrimination.Leaves.Some.Minority.Students.At.The.Door-2736303.shtml[/url]”>http://media.www.thesantaclara.com/media/storage/paper946/news/2007/02/22/News/Party.Discrimination.Leaves.Some.Minority.Students.At.The.Door-2736303.shtml</a></p>
<p>If you go back and read the post (#137) about the article from SantaClara.com carefully you will notice that the individual does identify themself as a Catholic youth worker. The tone and tenor of what (she?) says makes it very plausable to me that she is being honest about who she is and what her motives are. The point of her post seems IMO to be a little lost on you Idmom06. Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I hope you will go back and re-read her kind and compassionate words. She is looking for understanding from all of us. I think that is what you really want in your heart as well. Sometimes the best way to get understanding it is to give it. You seem hell bent to make something out of this that I personally don’t think is there. I guess it’s true that each persons perception becomes their reality.</p>
<p>I’ve read the post very carefully collegemom. And if I were you, I would take care you do not cross a line into personal insult. </p>
<p>My point is that it serves no one to invent excuses for unacceptable behavior. I don’t doubt the good intentions of the anonymous poster; but by creating ‘outs’ for these kids, we do disservice to THEM as well as those they have victimized. I think the SCU volleyball coach had the perfect advice…don’t make excuses, apologize and MEAN it. </p>
<p>I’m not advocating punishment for the kids at the party; but I am also not advocating absolving them of responsibility by cleaning up the story for them.</p>
<p>(I love it when people say ‘please don’t take this the wrong way’. Is it possible for me to take what you posted the wrong way collegemom?)</p>