<p>So, open the mail today, and its from the court. My D, an several of her idjet friends, got on the back of the bus, and didn’t pay. She has a bus pass (left it at home, and didn’t think to dig in her backpack to get 2 quarters, because all the kids were, you know chatting or whatever and didn’t go up front to pay). So the bus police, real cops btw, nab the juveniles, asking for proof of purchase, and asked for IDs, If you didn’t have any, then they asked to see school work in back pack with name. My D, well, i could just…she was wrong and were all the kids, however.</p>
<p>Does this warrant an afternoon in court for the first offense, scheduled during school hours, using valuable court time? And D asked to call me and was told to shut up.</p>
<p>I would gladly have D pay the fine, or take a class or whatever, just seems an interesting use of court time for all these kids, in a time of budget shortfalls</p>
<p>With all the gang violence in this city, this is how our courts spend their time, scary fare scawflaws…sure the kids were wrong, and after the first offense, have a court date, but first offense?</p>
<p>My brother (from small town Connecticut) jumped a subway turnstile in NYC sometime in the 70s … he was probably 16. Got caught. Had to go to court. His friend, same thing, they were down visiting friend’s aunt. Aunt sent attorney with them to court. Attorney told them to tell the truth.</p>
<p>The truth was … they’d never been in the subway before and thought that was how you got on the subway. They’d seen some other kids doing it! Apparently those kids didn’t get caught.</p>
<p>Judge laughed and told them that was <em>not</em> the right way and let them go!</p>
<p>There are two different issues here. One is the ethical one of not paying (your D and her friends) and the other is how to best use scarce resources (police and courts). </p>
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<p>By the way, someone tried to avoid paying the fare in a Paris metro (Gare du Nord) and when challenged, provoked an all-mighty riot that shut down one of the most important metro/train stations in Paris.</p>
<p>Even the best kids do some dumb things. That doesn’t make them bad but they have to deal with the consequences. I don’t think the court date is the actual consequence. They likely have to pay a fine and in order to do that, going through court may be the process. There has to be some consequence and apparently that is why they have people on board to enforce this rule. It is not a major offense but they have to pay the consequence. They should own up to it in court and admit to the wrongdoing and that they learned their lesson and take it seriously and then pay the fine (which is the likely consequence, I imagine). It is a little like shoplifting some candy at the checkout counter. Not BIG but still against the law and wrong. Even some terrific kids who never get in trouble make some poor choices once in a while. Being a first offense will likely get them the minimum consequence.</p>
<p>I am not saying my D should get special treatment, she was wrong, as I stated, as were her frineds, however, is this the best way to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in a city that has a budget crisis for te first offense for fare evasion in a cit that has a big gang problem, etc</p>
<p>I think not, and I thought this before.</p>
<p>Paying the consequences, fine, but when we have a police department that says they don’t have enough cops, to monitor Hunters Point, etc and then your have three cops spend all afternoon in court because some stupid kids didn’t pay 50 cents, priorities are skewed</p>
<p>the kids were wrong, fine them the first offense…but I still feel it is a waste of court time, police overtime, and not having the police on the STREETS so some kids can get their just punishment, sorry if I feel we have better use of our scarse $$</p>
<p>Look at it this way, the guys who beat up the Yale players had less police talking to them then my D and her friends did, and my D and her friends were actually held for 40 minutes, etc whil after te assault, the "bad guys’ just wondered off…</p>
<p>wonder how much $$ is spent to make a point, while we have unsolved shootings</p>
<p>While your D may not be a gang member she did use a gang/group mentality following the crowd on to the back of the bus, not paying when she knew that it was wrong so she got treated just like any other gang member who would have done the same thing. She broke the law (even if she did not have any money had she gone through the front door the bus driver would have probably told her to just get on). </p>
<p>If she does something like this it once she gets to NYC the summons is going to be way more, they find her with out ID, she will not like the hours that she will spend in central booking.</p>
<p>As a former DA, I can tell you that the whole judicial process IS the punishment for most first-time offenders. Makes them never want to be in that situation again, have to take time out of their life, etc. So yes, I think the court date is warranted and a valuable use of court time.</p>
<p>I would also be mad if my D hadn’t told me about it beforehand. Good luck, and I hope your D learns something from all of this.</p>
<p>Your d may also find herself in front of a clerk-magistrate rather than a judge, and that’s exactly what the clerk-magistrates are there for. So it’s not a “waste” of the court’s time; it’s how the court is set up.</p>
<p>Yes, I think that court date is warranted.
Also, who knows if it really was their first offense. I’d bet that most of the time when people get caught doing any crime, it’s very likely that they’ve pulled such a stunt many times.</p>
<p>After all, your D didn’t even tell you that she got nabbed. Why would you believe her now when she says it was her first time?</p>
<p>Even if it is their first time, I bet that having to show up in court will help the teens avoid having any further legal problems.</p>
<p>BTW, I also doubt that they’ll get a severe punishment for this. I bet they’re being called to court mainly to scare them so they won’t break the law again.</p>
<p>I also think it’s a good use of court time by decreasing the teens taking up court time in the future with more serious time-consuming charges.</p>
<p>If it was my D I’d ‘want’ her to have to go to court. It’s much more meaningful than just paying a fine by mail or worse yet, having the parent pay the fine for them.</p>
<p>This infraction may seem innocuous to some but it’s really theft - theft from the taxpayers. If one feels that they’re justified in not paying bus fare, what else do they feel entitled to?</p>
<p>The argument that the ‘… police should be chasing gangs, murderers, etc.’ is used by many who get caught for lesser infractions such as traffic violations, parking violations, shoplifting, vandalism, etc. We need to police to enforce ‘all’ of our laws - not just the most severe. Also, I’d bet those same police arrest plenty of gang members on the transit system - many of whom probably don’t pay the fare.</p>
<p>Agreed with all above. When my DS was 16 he got a “noise ticket” for having his car stereo too loud. The fine was like $300. He put on a suit, went to court, told the judge that he understood he had done something wrong but that he felt the fine was steep. Told the judge he was working hard, saving money for college. The judge asked him what kind of music he was playing. “Alternative rock, sir”. The judge laughed, told him “the cops like jazz. Play jazz next time son, and more quietly”. Cut the fine in half. DS paid the fine out of his own checking account. Case closed. It was a good experience for him all the way around and he learned his lesson. (I hope).</p>
<p>I agree that your D should go thru this court experience - can’t do the time? - then don’t do the crime. It is the same as stealing a 50cent piece of candy - still illegal. This will be a valuable lesson learned for her and may deter her from things like this again - make her think twice. You are probably pretty upset also - because you will also have to take the time to go with her - so that adds to this whole scenerio. BTW - who was this letter addressed to?? You - or your DD? Just curious.</p>
<p>Can you imagine what the costs are/would be if all passengers did not pay the fare? There is a fare because the transportation is not free. That is why the police are there (and for safety’s sake as well)- to make sure people do what they are supposed to do - and when they don’t - there is a bigger price to pay.</p>
<p>This experience will also remind her not to forget her bus pass again - I bet.</p>
<p>I hate to agree with the severity leaving a lasting impression, but I must. Back in the dark ages I stole a package of Twinkies from our neighborhood store (I was 10). Busted! Complete with cop car siren, store manager filling out paperwork and my mom being called at work to come get me. I had to go to junior court, and got 4 hours of “paper pick-up” as a fine (orange vest and all). Left such an impression that to this day it makes me feel bad (nearly 40 years later). </p>
<p>Do I think resources should be used for better things? Not necessarily. It’s possible (though not likely) that I could have gotten a rush from getting away with this petty crime, and continued on building up to bigger things. But the experience stopped me cold.</p>
<p>At the time it felt like overkill over a package of Twinkies, but if it were my kid, I swear I would hope they’d scare the straight into her by any means possible.</p>