Patrick Dennis wrote Auntie Mame. It was one of my favorite books as a teenager.
On the subject of the Confederate statuary, for me it is a classic case of consciousness raising. I never paid any attention to Confederate statuary. Now that I have been made aware that it was erected to intimidate and harass certain American citizens I say get rid of it. If there’s any residual artistic value put it in a museum I don’t have to go to. These statues were not put there by God but by people of evil intent.
Yes, apparently he was a distant cousin of her father, and her brother was my grandpa, so I am even more distantly related. But then again, I tend to think we are all distant cousins of just about everyone else, when it comes down to it.
There is nothing historical about statutes erected in the 1920’s or 1960’s of Confederate anything! Or schools built in the 20th century and named for a Confederate general.
The “all of a sudden” urge to remove the monuments came in my city after the racist massacre in Charleston. It just took years to wind it’s way through the court system. Now, after Charlottesville, we are seeing a second wave.
The Robert Lee situation IS ridiculous but we shouldn’t let it distract us from the underlying dissatisfaction with the lingering effects of white supremacist monuments. I’m glad we are cleaning house.
“For those who are so offended by the mere thought of southern generals, ya know, the north did win the war…”
Exactly. History is written by winners so…
Seriously though, for those like @busdriver11 who object to removal, I ask why so much offense at removing statues from public, government places? (which by the way predates the murder of the young woman in Charlottesville - wanting to remove statues isn’t a response to that or the white supremacists. The white supremacists marching in the supposed name of free speech which was really racism was in response to removing statutes.)
I also agree with this. One of my kids is an historic battlefields professional and I think those are sites where the statues should remain, as well. I do think they have educational value.
The Aug. 18-21 poll found that 54 percent of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces” while 27 percent said they “should be removed from all public spaces.” Another 19 percent said they “don’t know.”
In Alabama, Martin Luther King, Jr. day is still officially called Martin Luther King, Jr./Robert E. Lee day. When my H, who is from Alabama, told me that, I was shocked. This is the kind of consciousness raising @Wellspring is talking about. I would guess most people outside the state have no idea. Lee may have been a military genius, but he chose the wrong side. He fought for the wrong cause.
I just don’t think many people have thought deeply about it. I don’t think most Southerners see a symbol of hatred and human suffering when they look at the Confederate flag. I don’t know why. It’s just like the Nazi flag to me. The flag and all the memorials are reminders to me of what would have happened if the North hadn’t won and retaken the land below the Mason-Dixon. There are millions of Americans who have had to put up with these reminders that their family members were treated in the most horrible way possible. They are like ugly scars on a slowly healing wound.
We need to replace these monuments to the Confederacy with memorials to the men and women who suffered and died because of slavery.
Yes Belle I was just making a point and what you wrote that the response to Sherman would be makes the case about why those who see no problem with the Confederate statues are so wrong.
I grew up mostly in the North and West, but now live in the South. The town that I live in has a wonderful historic downtown with a square that contains – you guessed it – a confederate statue. This is not a general or politician, it is designed as a single “generic” confederate soldier. I love the feel the the historic downtown and the statue (erected in the late 1800s) is part of that feel. Most of the time, I don’t give a thought to what it means, just what it adds to the ambiance.
However, my family has from time to time discussed the statue, what it means, and if it should come down. There is no evidence that this particular statue was erected to intimidate or harass – however, if a descendant of slaves walked by and felt offended by the prominent position of the statue of someone who had fought to keep his ancestors enslaved, I think that they have a legitimate point. We are a politically and socially conservative family who value history, but we still have come to the conclusion that there is more compelling reason for the statue to be replaced than maintained. I say replaced, not removed, on purpose. I like having “a” statue there, but I would love to see it replaced with a statue of a men (and/or women) of many races united, representing the current citizens of our town in the same way that the original donors felt that the soldier represented their husbands and sons. I would even donate money for that effort. It would be a change, and feel less “historic” for a while, but hopefully 100 years from now, the then-residents of our city would walk by that statue and still be both enjoying the historic downtown and proud of the history their city represented.
I am a very conservative person, and I live my life with the goal of trying very hard not to cause hurt to other people. The confederacy was about enslaving human beings, it just was. There is a lot more to the post-war period, but the fact remains that those statues are hurtful and disturbing to a lot of people. For good reason. I don’t think public money, outside of museums and battlefields, should be used to pay for their upkeep. Like we always say on the right about certain organizations, “if you like it so much, pay for it yourself.” I think the same applies here. No one is saying they can’t exist in private places (and if they are, then they need to be set straight), just that they shouldn’t be paid for and held up in public spaces as deserving of reverence or respect.
Jon Meacham wrote a thoughtful piece in the NY Times about the differences between honoring Washington and Lee. The problem now is that people are not just calling for the removal of statues of Confederates from the public square but of anyone who owned slaves such as Washington and Jefferson and Jackson. If the bright line were removal of Confederates leaders (because their acts were treasonous to the U.S) and having citizens vote on it, I would have no problem.
I do have a problem with those who call on removal of a statue to anyone whose actions no longer fit today’s standards or the statues of those who offend any particular group of people. If that is the standard, no statues as all would survive.
They’ll always be a few who take things too far (hence this thread and the ESPN thing) but to use that as a reason not to rationally address confederate monuments because of some slippery slope theory as some leaders and opponents have…nope, let’s cross those bridges if needed instead of using it as an excuse to move our country and the dialogue forward on its racist history.
My problem is with group think. People who never even thought about this before, now hysterical to remove these statues, from anywhere in sight. Our pedophiliac mayor in Seattle is even demanding the removal of them from private cemeteries. I think this should be a local, individual decision, not demanded by the masses. Now we have certain segments of the media and individuals telling us what we should all do and think about this subject (and everything else), and it irritates me.
I never much thought or cared about this, and I still don’t really. But in my opinion, for some Southerners (and I married into a family full of them), this represents their side during the war. It is identity, not something that represents slavery. They still make snide remarks about the Yankees (and apparently I’m close enough to being one). They lost, and people still want to destroy their statues. I think maybe it’s a pride issue for some, and really has nothing to do with racism. These are their generals, this is their history, and people would like to erase it.
I am a white southerner with nine generations in the family cemetery, and I want all the confederate statues and flags out of public view. I’m fine with them in museums if others want them there. However, I’m not going to ever go visit them, nor will I take my grandchildren. Every morning lately when I wake up and another has been taken away, I am just happy happy happy. I can’t even describe the feeling of relief and joy.
Today I received a letter from a 90 year old white southern friend. Her ancestors owned several plantations. The reason for the note was to tell me she wants all the statues out of the public square. Some are of her ancestors.
Last Friday, we had dinner with about a dozen white southerners. All supported removal of the statues. Some were proudly showing pictures of their kids or grandkids protesting.
^^This is a statue that has been in national news the last few days. If you look at the timeline, there have been objections to this statue as a racist monument since at least 1965. The idea they should be removed is not new, at least in the south.
eta: changed 8 to 9 in cemetery, cause I just have difficulty believing and coping with the fact my parents’ generation is now all gone.
