Child accepted to all 3. Full pay at ND. Honors college at both IU & South Carolina. SC gave in state tuition (plus more possibly) so current COA is at $30,402. IU awarded 9k a year (with more possible) bringing COA to $46,390. Household is split… Student is keeping an open mind but ND has been the dream since a young age and always worked hard with that in mind. Parents are split on ‘name/opportunity vs cost’. We can make the Financials work with a little sacrifice but it’s so hard to leave money on the table. I know from reading on this board the popular opinion is the cheapest option so while money is a big factor, we’re more interested on comparing the schools, programs available and if ND provides an unparalleled experience/advantage. We have only visited ND and loved it but will see the other two before making a decision. Give us the good, bad and everything in between!
Congratulations on the scholarships and acceptances to fantastic schools. Two questions:
- what field of business is he looking to major in?
2} does ND have an honors program?
Neither of our kids chose the least costly option, but we were also able to pay the costs for their choices.
Let’s just say that U of South Carolina would have cost us about $10,000 a year given the generous merit award she received. She chose a college that was 4 times the cost. But we were OK with that.
I know several U of SC business grads and all are well employed at places like Deloitte, Bank of America, and the like. All are in the southeast for work, although one of the Deloitte folks has taken job transfers to a number of locations.
I can’t speak with any experience about Mendoza or Kelley. But good luck and congratulations!
Three different schools. Size, weather, feel. Even U of SC, in city, and IU are different. Obviously UND has the religious aspect. I would move past it’s always been the dream and I’m glad you are.
You need to see all three.
I don’t personally think cheapest is best but I do think affordability matters. When I hear we can make it work with sacrifice, that tells me it’s not affordable. So I’d eliminate that choice. And I’d look long term at affordability and not just today’s pain. Will it impact your life for years ? If you can afford a fantastic school without sacrifice, why sacrifice ?
For most b school majors, the where won’t matter much outcome wise. For some it will. Both the publics are solid but short of international business, IU would be considered higher rated of the two but again, in most cases it won’t matter.
You might also look at career outcome reports from all three.
Best of luck whatever the student and family decide.
First, for context on my comments: One of my kiddos graduated from Mendoza in 23. Another is a first year in Mendoza. Our oldest graduated from a different, highly-regarded college in 2017. Neither my spouse, nor I, not any other family members attended Notre Dame. We are not religious. I am a first gen college grad and we paid (are paying) full college tuition for all 3 kids.
In our experience, Notre Dame is an exceptional school. Most of my kids’ professors are engaging, available leaders in their fields, including in the business world. Support services (health services, residential life, career services, public safety, dining, etc) have all exceeded our expectations. At Mendoza (unlike at a few other undergraduate business programs we considered), the student clubs are accessible to ALL students. The atmosphere is cooperative and collaborative…not compeitive. Look carefully at other schools to see whether student clubs (i.e. “Wall Street club”) are open to everyone or are highly competitive and exclusive. Our kids formed deep friendships with peers who care about their studies and doing good in the world. Perhaps the greatest “value add” we found with Mendoza is access to a national, loyal, helpful alumni network for internships/mentoring/career opportunities.
Not to say these things aren’t true at Kelly and Moore – they may be. I just don’t have experience with those schools.
Finally, on the cost issue – many frequent CC posters have strong opinions on this, but the fact is – this is a deeply personal thing. I grew up relatively poor. Through scholarships and many student loans, I received a “name brand” degree and it opened an incredible number of doors for me. It was an investment with a high ROI for me, but again, everyone’s situation is different.
If you have any specific questions about Mendoza, feel free to message me, and congrats to your child on these three great opportunties.
Mendoza will keep all doors open and as mentioned above the resources&alumni network are unmatched.
IU Kelley+Honors is considered excellent for Finance and IB although business club opportunities are competitive.
USc honors is topnotch for international business and the honors college is one of the best out there.
So, if your child is interested in either field the matter is more difficult.
Think back also to what you said you’d do - ie., did you promise your child they could attend ND if you could afford it? Or did you give them a budget and ND is above it?
Should we assume your child was admitted ED? - indeed the ED contract is binding unless the offer is unaffordable (different from “we have a less expensive option”). If the ND offer is unaffordable because of expenses you could not explain through CSS (medical expenses…?) it’s definitely worth it to contact the financial aid office (this is called “professional jusgement”) ; same thing if you’re 2-3k short (you can also always ask for a work study position to be packaged in the FA -mention you’re only 3k short as in the grand scheme of things 3k is not a lot and if admitted ED they’d definitely want your child to attend.)
It’s different if you need to dig into retirement savings or take a parental loan - this is considered "unaffordable"and before you break the ED contract you need to let ND know, ie., the NPC indicated $x.,000 and we end up having to pay $2x.,000… so despote ND being my #1 choice it’s unaffordable for my family…
Notre Dame is REA, not ED.
Thanks, I confess I hadn’t taken the time to check due to this being NYE - each year parents wonder about this wrt ED, so it’s good the question is about REA.
The rest (especially the “professional judgement” wrt FA, work study, promise or established budget, status of honors) stands and I hope can be helpful to OP.
I’ll share what my co-worker told me. His daughter attended U South Car. She’s now working at Bank of America.
According to him (through her), it was extremely difficult to get tippy top internships because South Carolina is not a target school so she had to network like crazy and do a lot of it herself.
Just passing it along.
I think if IB, etc. or other types of banking - that’s right. Some schools give you better access than others - not saying UND is that one but U of SC might not be.
But the tradeoff is the affordability - and the student still got an internship and great job. And once you get the internship - experience begets experience. It’s what my kid experienced in his major.
I’d hypothesize that if the student is interested in marketing, supply chain, general (sales), MIS, accounting, finance (non banking) - it won’t make a hill of beans.
But that’s why you look at career outcomes from each school - to see the trends, the outcomes the students achieve.
There’s another thread, for example, SMU vs. Tulane and everyone is highlighting SMU - but SMU is huge in finance and not marketing/sales…but that’s what the student wants to do - marketing/sales. So even the parent is believing all the SMU stories people are mentioning and the stories are being tied to banking, etc. - yet the parent specifically said the student had no interest in banking
So you have get more granular - and focus on the majors that’s important to you - and I think this anecdote shows, if the student has grit and determination - they can and will - get to where they want to be. It’s not easy but it might be $200K less - and that may (or may not) be impactful to the family. Personally, I’d have a hard time spending $200K more - and you don’t even know what interests the student today will be what interests the student tomorrow. But clearly the family is enamored with UND - especially after the visit - and only they can answer that value proposition for themselves.
I put all three schools outcomes below…you may have to refilter the UND report if it set to all. Moore says 2021 but opens to 23.
Good luck.
PS - my kid goes to a 2nd tier public (by choice) and just interned at arguably the most prestigious think tank that typically has interns from high level schools. My other turned down a highly ranked engineering program for what that doesn’t show up on any lists - and while his employer didn’t recruit on his campus, he’s working with kids from the school he turned down (and higher ranked schools) and they did recruit there.
Hustle and grit go a long way - no matter where you go nor what you major.
Undergraduate Major Report 2021 (sc.edu)
Outcomes – KelleyConnect | Kelley School of Business (iu.edu)
Stats and Outcomes | Get Started | Undergraduate Career Services | University of Notre Dame
My daughter is a finance/math major at Clemson, wanting to become an actuary. Her older brother’s best friend is an actuary who graduated from ND, she is following his path, had a bunch of internship offers for next summer (going with AON). She hustled, but that hustle involved her 3 advisors and having a 4.0 in honors. She got merit at Clemson (most likely would’ve received more at SC). She’s pretty confident she will receive a job offer after graduation (she was told she was the only one receiving a sign on bonus).
Just providing a link to article on target schools for Investment Banking positions. Hope the link works. ND is pretty high on the list for target schools, #7. But something to consider is that successful people are those who hustle, network and work hard regardless of which school they went to.
Me again. Mendoza kids graduate with a Bachelor of Business Adminstration in one of five majors (Accountancy, Business Analytics, Finance, Marketing, or Strategic Management). All five have strong placements. I’m grateful my kids didn’t want investment banking (IB)…the starting salary is high, but so is the pressure/stress.
I didn’t think of this for my first so long ago, but I’ve learned it’s good to have a look at this info, readily available on most schools’ websites…just search “career outcomes” … if it links properly, here’s Notre Dame (Mendoza) Class of 2022, but you may have to check the boxes for Mendoza: Stats and Outcomes | Get Started | Undergraduate Career Services | University of Notre Dame
Also I never answered the “Honors College” question…Notre Dame doesn’t have one, as they enroll only about 2100 first years. I think honors colleges are more common at large schools. I believe Indiana and South Carolina enroll between 7000 and 10,000 first years.
If ND is the dream and you can afford it, go for it!
In terms of U.S. News rankings, these represent strengths of Kelley, which places 4th in accounting and 10th in finance.
Notre Dame, as well, appears notably highly in accounting, placing in a tie for 10th.
(Original post deleted in error.)
Notre Dame COA is over $80,000 per year.
Ask both U South Carolina & Indiana University for more money.
Currently, U South Carolina will be $50,000 less per year than Notre Dame.
IU-Kelley will be at least $35,000 less per year.
The student & family need to visit IU-Kelley & U South Carolina before deciding.
OP: Other than financial information, you have not shared any other information regarding the student’s academic preferences & career plans.
Did you tell your child they could go to Notre Dame if they were accepted? You ran the NPC and knew you were full pay before the application was made? If so, you may need to let your child decide. All 3 nice choices.
Thank you everyone for these great responses! I’m short on time and will reply more later but just wanted to say, yes, we knew how much it would cost and would never pull the rug out! It will be their choice and we are able to make it work. Our ‘sacrifice’ won’t cripple us, we would never do that but we also don’t want to just needlessly throw away money… Well at least one of us doesn’t lol!
What aspect of business is your child interested in?
For front office investment banking roles in New York, a target school will make that process much easier - @Catcherinthetoast can advise.
For general corporate finance any will be great, but recruiting is likely to be highly regional. e.g. My eldest is a management consultant for one of the Big 4 out of Alabama, but started in the office of a major SE city, which may not be a preferred location.
If you want accounting and Big 4, cheapest. They don’t care where you go to school.
If you want IB, Notre Dame. Not a historical feeder, but is now. Our lead book runner for our last 5 public deals, a firm with notoriously finicky hiring practices, has a notable number of ND grads on their roster, and the person who led the marketing calls was one of them.
I know Indiana has a strong program and gets kids to Wall Street, but my impression is that the ND name is more powerful. I could be wrong, but I think that’s generally true. If your kid winds up doing something else altogether, ND is a bigger name than Indiana generally, of course, and certainly relative to South Carolina…
Again, accounting, go with what works best financially and otherwise. You can get to a Big 4 from almost anywhere. Wall Street IB, I’d choose ND not knowing anything else about your situation.