Now *who* had all the great dog training advice?

Parent Cafe
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<p>There was a wonderful thread a month or two back with some posters who sounded like they really know what they’re talking about when it comes to training your new pup. I’m too lazy to go dig it up/wade through it, and I only have a few targeted questions.</p>

<p>We recently lost our Best Dog Ever chocolate lab and, after looking for several months, will be adopting a one-year-old black lab mix in a few days. He’s a really good boy with some basic commands, but we need to work with him on (1) not pulling on the leash and (2) not jumping up. Who can tell me the most effective ways to deal with these?</p>

<p>Also, we have a nine-month-old Corgi and I’d like to help him adjust to his new stepbrother. My sister has fostered some dogs and said to treat them as twins for a while–if one gets a treat, so does the other, . . . . Any other advice for helping these two guys become friends? (We did have a half-day playdate to see how they got along. Lots of good-natured horseplay. However, Corgi was not good about sharing–kept taking toys away from New Dog. New Dog put up with it nicely. Right before I was to take New Dog back to foster home I <stupidly> gave him a rawhide (meant for the car) but didn’t give Corgi one. Things got a little uglier.)</stupidly></p>

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<p>On getting the two dogs to adjust, I’ve consistently heard advice to have the dogs meet on neutral territory, which you’ve started. Don’t bring the new dog into the house with your Corgi inside. Have them interact a bit outside the house, then bring them in together. That way the Corgi is less likely to feel his space is being invaded.</p>

<p>The dogs will inevitably try to establish where they stand in the pack. One dog will try to boss the other around. Sounds like your Corgi thinks he’s top dog. Some dogs don’t seem to mind being bossed around by other dogs, others will try very hard to establish their position.</p>

<p>On pulling and jumping, our dog school teaches pointedly ignoring them, or putting them in their crate (time out) for this kind of bad behavior, then rewarding them with praise and treats for good behavior. This technique has worked pretty well for us with our new lab (now 7 months old).</p>

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<p>Honestly, I would get your hands on as many DVDs of The Dog Whisperer with Cesar Milan, as possible. While his work on the shows is basically with dogs who have some rather serious problems, as he works through those problems, he teaches you a LOT about dog behavior. I think he’s pretty incredible, and wish I had known of his techniques and insights when we got our dog 14 years ago. He’s done a number of shows on introducing a new dog to the family where there are already dogs.</p>

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<p>Just added a few to my Netflix queue!</p>

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<p>Am glad that you added a few. Once I started watching Cesar, it all sort of seemed overwhelming - his training can be sort of subtle to someone who is not familiar with him, but once you watch him over time, you begin to see patterns in his approach to dogs. Remember, the stories you see on his show are more extreme, but he often makes comments along the lines of, “If this had been done this way from the beginning, then this wouldn’t be a problem.” So there are very helpful guidelines on how to behave from the beginning so that the problems don’t become so extreme.</p>

<p>Oh, and prepare yourself for hearing a lot of, “You need to exercise your dog a lot to expend pent up energy.” His preferred methods: rollerblading with his dogs (my pet peeve is that you never see him wear a helmet), putting the dog on a treadmill, etc. He believes a lot of misbehavior originates when dogs are bored.</p>

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<p>Alright, people will probably think I am awful but I can tell you how we got our retriever to quit jumping and by the way jumping on people can be dangerous. Dogs can knock elderly people and children down. Anyways, when our big lovable lout tried to jump, my husband basically kneed him in the most sensitive part of the body. The dog never did it again. Not nice but it resulted in very quick learning. As for pulling, because my dog is so much stronger than I am, he wears a pinch collar when we walk. I rarely have to engage it.<br>
As for the Corgi, the two dogs may become pals and it sounds like you are approaching the relationship correctly. Just remember some dogs, like some people, just don’t share. They maybe better friends if all they are doing is running and chasing each other.</p>

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<p>I think you have to do like Onward says, only I think you put your knee up in more like their chest area. And you turn your head away so they don’t get your attention when they do it.
I like “Uncle Matty” too, if you can find any of his videos. Does your Corgi pull? It’s easier to train New Dog if Corgi walks well on the leash.<br>
I treat-trained my Samoyed to walk on the leash the way Uncle Matty does it.<br>
Samoyeds can drag you n amount of miles if you don’t leash-train them, so I swear by this.</p>

<p>Corgi might get really territorial with New Dog in the house. I would keep New Dog in a crate at first for times you can’t supervise – for New Dog’s protection. That will give Corgi a chance to inspect him, get used to his smell and gradually be comfortable.</p>

<p>Congratulations and good luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the good advice. New Dog is not terribly jumpy, but with his size I’d like to stop it altogether. (Corgi only jumps when very excited, and will sit for me before I pet him. Kids have not been as consistent–but we haven’t worried about it as much given his size. Wrong, I know, but there you have it.) And for good or bad, we have a chunk of property so Corgi is rarely on a leash. In fact, last time we put a leash on him he looked like he was being led to slaughter. Will definitely need to walk New Dog on a leash, though, and as his foster said, he calms down pretty quickly but does initially pull.</p>

<p>Corgi is a really good guy and New Dog seems very sweet and happy (foster thinks he has some flat-coated retriever in the mix–what a great-sounding breed!). I believe they’ll be good buds soon (that was part of the reason to get New Dog), but I know they’ll need some time to adjust. I think back to all the “let your kids work things out themselves” advice I got when they were younger. I think I tend to lean in that direction, but don’t want either dog to get hurt.</p>

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<p>I was one of the posters on that thread. </p>

<p>Have you brought New Dog home already? It sounds like it. But if you haven’t, I’d suggest a long walk together for the two of them, which just happens to end up with both of them coming in the house. </p>

<p>I would recommend against the Dog Whisperer because I think his methods are unnecessarily harsh for most dogs, especially dogs that are easy to please. I am partial to Jean Donaldson Culture Clash or, even better, and easier to read, Jane Killion’s When Pigs Fly. Both of them approach dog training from a very calm and positive perspective. </p>

<p>As for walking nicely on leash, there are three approaches that come to mind. One is spending a huge amount of time on leash manners (which I’ve seen fail to work); one is a head halter (Halti or Gentle Leader); a third is a pinch collar. I would vote for the Gentle Leader with a lab. Makes walking a pleasure. (I use a fourth method with my dog that pulls (and has for six years, despite a huge amount of training): I use a harness and encourage her to pull, because she has hip dysplasia and it makes her hips stronger. When I need her to walk nicely I use a Gentle Leader.)</p>

<p>On not jumping up: lots of people will tell you methods like punching the dog in the chest, pinching toes, etc. Too cruel for my taste. I taught my dogs to jump up on command (the command is when I pat my chest AND say “mug me!”) by giving them bits of steak when they jumped on command but just turning my back when they tried it without permission. After a while they decided it was only worth it if they got paid. I also taught a “default sit”. The only chance they had to get a reward (treat, petting, etc.) was if they sat nicely in front of me. </p>

<p>To train the default sit, I took the dog for a nice long walk first, to help them focus their mind. No breakfast, to make them hungry. To start training, breakfast kibble is in my hand. I stand very still and hold the kibble at the dog’s head height. When I have her attention, I sweep the hand straight up. The dog’s head comes up and the butt goes down. I say “yes!” as the butt moves down, then give the dog a treat. Move a step or two away (so the dog stands up) and repeat. Once the dog is sitting quickly, I stop signaling the sit. I don’t say anything. I stand very still. I don’t move my hand. I just stand there. The second the dog sits, I say “YES!” and give three or four pieces of kibble. Then I put the treats in my pocket and move away. Then I stop, stand very still, and wait. If the dog comes over and sits in front of me, “YES!” and all the treats. Then, I say “all done!”, show the dog my empty hands, and move away.</p>

<p>The next time you have treats, I’d bet the dog will sit automatically. Then have someone else repeat the sequence. Soon, the dog will sit in front of everyone rather than jump up.</p>

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<p>New Dog is coming home tomorrow. (I’m home the next four days to start working with him.) dmd–I do remember you. Corgi has taken to training well and New Dog seems very eager to please–one of the reasons we fell for him. I do think gentler training methods will be effective. I’ve spent some time reading online today. Many sites recommend the turning back/ignoring method to keep them from jumping. They also recommend just not moving at all if dog puts any tension on the leash for the pulling problem. I’m going to give those a try. Corgi is actually a good sitter. Seems to do it naturally when I get home or am coming back from getting the mail/paper across the street. Not sure why, but he does tend to wait to be called over (with his little butt wiggling in anticipation). And while we’ve only spent a few hours with New Dog, he seems just as motivated by food as our old lab was. I gotta think that will help with the training.</p>

<p>I think I’ve read on this forum before that kids in the household tend to be the problem. DH and I can be fairly consistent, but <surprise surprise=“”> my teenaged boys think anything a dog does is great (jumping up on them, hanging out in bed, . . .). Thanks for the detailed explanations. Were you the one who had trained dogs to do simply amazing things?</surprise></p>

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<p>I do dog agility with my dogs, so they have all sorts of arcane skills that most people never need. Teenage boys LOVE to train dogs to do weird tricks, so one way to deal with the jumping up issue might be to have your boys train the dog to jump up ONLY on command. The “mug me” command cracks up half the kids I know. (My 23-year-old son taught my dogs both to “high five”.) </p>

<p>BTW, initially, try to train the dogs separately. Training them both at once (except for maybe the default sit) can be really difficult.</p>

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<p>“On not jumping up: lots of people will tell you methods like punching the dog in the chest, pinching toes, etc. Too cruel for my taste.”</p>

<p>dmd, I could not resist and NOT reply to this misrepresentation of the facts :slight_smile: I see that you do not consider pinch collars torture devices (some people do). My sister, a veterinarian and a dog trainer, taught us a very simple and a very effective method which did not involve hitting the dog: put your knee slightly forward so the dog will run into it first when he tries to jump on you; do not yell or hit the dog as you do this so the dog would not associate the unpleasant sensation with you personally. Dogs are not stupid and are not prone to masochism, they learn quickly that jumping is not a pleasant activity. This worked like a charm for our very large GSD who weighed close to 40 lb when we got him as a puppy and did not know a single command. He was a very quick learner and mastered “sit” and the rest of the doggie school in no time with the help of microscopic pieces of cheddar cheese (he was not interested in dog treats!). </p>

<p>“Soon, the dog will sit in front of everyone rather than jump up.” I would not want my dog sit in front of my visitors thinking he will get a treat, but this is just my personal preference :)</p>

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<p>That cracked me up too! (For some reason we were having a tough time getting Corgi to lie down on command. He just started kind of doing this shoulder roll onto his back instead. (This one spends a lot of time on his back.) Oldest son tried to teach him “commando roll!”) (And oldest–who just went back to school this weekend–also had Corgi jumping up on him the last few days when he had food. Not a good idea, we’re thinking.) (Actually, now that I think about it, when youngest lies down and thumps his chest Corgi jumps up on him.)</p>

<p>Good advice to train them separately. I’m trying to remind myself to give Corgi lots of love the next few days. It’s too easy to focus on New Dog.</p>

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<p>BB: your knee method works great for some dogs. I know others that simply use the knee as a springboard (like Jack Russells). </p>

<p>I like a default sit in front of people. Dogs sit, get no treat, and move on. If I have visitors who are not fond of dogs, my dogs are in puppy jail (their very roomy and very comfortable crate) while they are there. YMMV.</p>

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<p>I am definitely not an expert, but I want to chime in!</p>

<p>We also use the default sit and use it in many circumstances. Sit before eating food. Sit before going out the door. Sit before crossing a street. Sit if your owner gives you that “look!” She knows.</p>

<p>I don’t remember how we discouraged jumping. I know part of it was giving the dog absolutely no attention until the jumping stopped, then telling her to sit and THEN greeting her. OK, I guess I do remember.</p>

<p>Nipping: when our puppy would nip with her puppy teeth, I would yelp in a little high pitched voice (the sound a puppy makes when hurt) and immediately stop playing. Could be my imagination, but I swear our dogs understood that sound; they weren’t trying to hurt us. The short time out from play time (talking seconds here) also served to reinforce the notion that nipping was not part of “fun.”</p>

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<p>ingerp, we recently added a yr and a half corgi to our home…she is great , but also a bit self absorbed…likes to be showered with attention. When she is laying and resting, if one of our cats or our old lady golden retriever comes around for a pat , you can bet that she will come running and try to get in between us and the other pet. They all get along pretty well , but when Stella ( corgi ) has a bone , she will let out a little growl if anyone gets too close…totally wasted on our deaf cat and the others just ignore her.
I am happy that she doesn’t chase the cats because that would go over like a turd in the punchbowl with them…there seems to be a mutual respect there ( phew )</p>

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<p>ingerp, here’s two but I don’t know if either of these were the one you had been remembering</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/778612-introducing-new-puppy.html?highlight=New+puppy[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/778612-introducing-new-puppy.html?highlight=New+puppy&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/811631-new-puppy.html?highlight=New+puppy[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/811631-new-puppy.html?highlight=New+puppy&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This one was a bit earlier
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/763710-question-dog-experts.html?highlight=dog[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/763710-question-dog-experts.html?highlight=dog&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>We did have one Corgi before and, while we loved him dearly, he could be kind of a. . . pecker. Jealous if we were loving on our other dog. Not overly friendly to strangers. Would get a bit ugly if we put Other Dog’s food bowl too close at feeding time. DH swears he held a grudge. This Corgi has been <relatively> sweet. Very outgoing, very forgiving. They really are big dogs in small bodies, though. We had an overnight a few months ago with another dog we were considering (but did not keep). This was a big, lanky, 90-pound lab. Corgi had him totally cowed within a few hours. Was taking toys and treats from him. We didn’t see it as mean–just surprisingly self-confident. (A good quality, we’re thinking, given that he is quite a bit smaller than the labs we’ve been looking at.) I like that term “self-absorbed!”</relatively></p>

<p>Thanks for the links to the doggy threads. I’ll look over them today.</p>

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<p>I spent several hours yesterday with a friend and her two corgis. Long long walk and then we all came back to our house for lunch. The corgis and the poodles were so tired no one cared whose territory it was. Toys were ignored. All they did was drink a lot of water and then fall asleep. Corgis are indeed big dogs with short legs. Oh, and they shed! Since I have poodles, I’m not used to finding dog hairs on the floor!</p>

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<p>Well while I still have some attention, on to the more trivial matters.</p>

<p>I know DH was just the tiniest bit disappointed to learn that this probably-mostly-lab doesn’t seem to know how to retrieve. Dear Old Lab was of course a natural–on ground or in the water. DH tried throwing a stick for New Dog during the play date–he ran to it but just kind of stood there looking. Any tips on teaching a retriever to retrieve? (I’m thinking find some non-edible object, toss, call New Dog back over, ask him to release? Or isn’t this fun for all dogs? Dear Old Lab used to do it until our arms got tired.)</p>