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<p>I think that for kids coming from California’s “top” high schools, this can also work in reverse - because the UC system is really really good, some of the most outstanding students use the UCs as their safeties. This means that Berkeley and UCLA (and probably UCSD too) probably get a lot of apps from students who have absolutely no intention of going unless they get rejected from all the private schools they applied to…</p>
<p>(my friends and i are guilty as charged)</p>
<p>Has anyone else experienced “the limitator” that kept my S’s apps down to only 5? Teacher and GC rec’s…one of my S’s rec-writers (a truly great teacher…he should get an award!) told all the seniors in September, flat-out-no excpetions: He’d write 6 and only 6 rec’s…and the kids had to follow his rather exacting instructions for the process by which he’d write the rec’s…including, for example, no rec-writing for RD apps until the kids had heard and decided after their ED/EA rounds…</p>
<p>And you gotta feel for GCs if they have to write recs for 19 or 20 apps! If they use the same one for all apps, it just can’t look as personal and thoughtful, particularly if the GC has relationships at the schools the apps are going to (and our GCs at my S’s HS do)…</p>
<p>Anyway, my S ultimately kept his list to 5 because each of his choices fit a different “fit scenario” in his mind…and he was acutely aware of the “back-up” in the rec-writing arena…it’s bad at our HS…the seniors actually plan a thank-you party for the GCs in May cuz of all they do for them…and there’s actually competition early in the process to get the best rec-writing teachers…</p>
<p>Some of you are pointing to the lottery approach of getting into the top schools as the reason so many kids are applying to more and more schools. That may be the major reason for most of the CC’ers, but CC’s are not representative. This trend is something we are seeing at all schools, not just the Ivies. </p>
<p>I think there are a couple of other reasons: first, yes, there are the lottery schools, and that increases the number of apps. But other reasons include: 1) geographic movement. In the past, a certain number of kids would go out of their geographic area. But I think this has increased dramatically, and more and more kids are willing and interested in schools all over the country. When I was a kid, it was highly unusual for someone to go more than 5 hours drive away. It’s just not that way now. So instead of competing with those in our region, kids are now routinely competing with kids from all 50 states.</p>
<p>2) money! Parents are in many cases encouraging their kids to apply to multiple schools because the cost of school has gone up so much. They need multiple financial packages to consider.</p>
<p>The other reason kids may be applying to so many schools is that they do want the feeling of having choices at the end of the day. I know that 10-20 years ago, it was quite usual to have 3 reach, 2match and 1 safety school. Now the reaches have become lottery tickets and it is not unusual to have 7-8 reaches. Then the matches are uncertain as well, especially if the kid is busy courting the reaches. A match does not an admit make, and safeties also have caveats. So it is considered unbearable to be stuck with one’s safety if things do not go well, if that too does not go south. Much more comforting to have some choices, even if they are considered safeties. Too often the single safety is a school just tacked on without a lot of thought put into it.</p>
<p>I agree jamimom, at the end of the process, I want my kids to have a few choices, at least two or three. And when hoping that a couple of those choices will be affordable, the list starts growing more . . .I expect my D will apply to three or four UC’s (because it’s not like you can just pick your favorite and know you’ll get in), at least two reachy schools, two match schools picked without regard to merit aid, and probably three or four or five match schools picked for merit aid possibilities, and one or two absolute safeties. Gee, that adds up quick.</p>
<p>This is perhaps one advantage (or disadvantage depending on your viewpoint) of the UK uni centralised application system - you are physically limited to applying to six universities, no more.</p>
<p>Hayden and Jamimom ~ I agree with you, and would add that there is an effect from kids just having a lot more information. More kids go to grad school and are thinking about it in advance. More information = more options that are considered.</p>
<p>I see no harm in applying to large number of schools. It is a cat & mouse game. A school may well turn down or wait list a student when they think there is little chance of that student actually attending. My S was accepted by his safeties, wait listed by his “matches,” and accepted by his very selective “reaches.” The matches were smart, why waste a spot on a kid who will not attend if their first choice says yes? Some schools even asked where else he was applying (which I consider a breach of privacy).</p>
<p>"The matches were smart, why waste a spot on a kid who will not attend if their first choice says yes? "</p>
<p>How did they know he wouldn’t say yes?</p>
<p>They are experienced. He didn’t show them any real “love.” He didn’t visit or interview. Colleges take that as a sign the application is not a first choice.</p>
<p>idad: I often read comments similar to your own on these boards–that applicants need to visit, interview, and really show that they truly “love” the school. My daughter applied to 8 schools, only interviewed at 3 (with alums here in our area). Two of those 3 with interviews, she had also visited. Those two rejected her. And interestingly enough, one of those schools (an Ivy) had ED. The interviewer asked her why she didn’t apply ED as she seemed to be really interested in the school. She gave him her reasons why, but I do think not applying ED at that school might have appeared to the interviewer, this really isn’t your first choice school. At any rate, the remaining 6 (only one of which she got an interview) accepted her. And one in particular, she never visited, never interviewed, and completed only Part I of their application. She never sent in the fee, because she had changed her mind about wanting to go there. Not only did they waive the application fee and a couple of other required application items, they sent her an acceptance letter and a very nice renewable 4 year merit scholarship! We thought that was very very nice, especially since it was the 2nd acceptance that arrived in the mail. And, by the way, one of the schools where she never visited, never interviewed, was WashU–her 1st acceptance received in the mail. WashU seems to be a school where everyone thinks you need to really show your interest…but not in our experience.</p>
<p>There is no magic that can predict precisely what a school is looking for. Here is a quote from a Newsweek article about admissions at UChicago:</p>
<p>“This buyer’s market allows the admissions staff to consider a delectable question: if nearly every applicant is qualified, then who is most desirable? For Chicago, the answer is the high-end student who embraces complex ideas and ceaseless discussion, who reads ‘Anna Karenina’ and can’t wait to tell someone about it. 'We tell people we’re seeking rigor,” O’Neill [Dean of Admissions] confides one brittle December day, walking through a sunlit stone quadrangle. ‘What we’re really seeking is love.’"</p>
<p>(A link to the full Newsweek article “Inside the Admissions Game”: <a href=“http://members.cox.net/scfun/sceduc-cl-newsweek.pdf[/url]”>http://members.cox.net/scfun/sceduc-cl-newsweek.pdf</a>)</p>
<p>How that love is expressed is the question. Is it a passion for learning? Is it an EC that demonstrate it? Is it how one embraces the mission and values of the school? All good questions. Showing the love may mean something different to each school. I do know that an experienced GC we know said S’s match colleges were very sensitive to being a second or third choice, but who really knows?</p>
<p>idad: Out of the 3 alums who interviewed my daughter, UChicago was the only one of those 3 schools that accepted her. And she did enjoy the interview very much, really liked the interviewer–who came across more like a recruiter than anything else–which my daughter loved! Never visited the campus, though. I do think that particular school may pay more attention to essays (and possibly interviews) than others. However, 6 additional students from her class were accepted as well–and only 2 others had interviews. The other 4 never got interviewed, nor did they ever visit the campus. So maybe the essays made a difference there? I just don’t think you necessarily have to visit a school or even have an interview. I think a lot depends on how well (and what) you write. The whole process has proved fascinating, though…</p>
<p>Jack: Chicago heavily weighs the essay, my S’s friends with higher “numbers” were not accepted by Chicago. My S read their essays and remarked he didn’t think they spent enough time thinking through the topics. And don’t forget, interviews can go bad as well. I have heard mixed opinions about whether kids should actually do them. There are many ways to show the love, or at least indicate that the school is really of interest, for which schools look. Perhaps, though, it is the opposite, schools may look for signs that there is no love…</p>
<p>idad: Yes, I believe those essays really make a difference, but I believe they do other places as well, and certainly when being considered for honors or scholarships-- at any school. And perhaps the difference is not so much <em>what</em> a student says, as <em>how</em> he or she says it. A really excellent piece of writing (often a rarity) can be such a joy to read.</p>
<p>My daughter applied to ten schools - (she was encouraged to do so by the GC). It made me long for the days when I was applying to college, when I didn’t know anyone who applied to more than four. (actually my school refused to process more than four applications). Applying is expensive – not only in terms of the application fees, but because you have to pay to have all the scores sent. It also took over her life for about a month! I REALLY REALLY wish there was some way to go back to the old system. (I have one more high school kid left to go). But like a lot of families we were nervous about a “what if…” scenario, and thought she should have several “safeties”.</p>
<p>jack: I tend to agree, a well formulated argument or presentation, regardless of the point of view, can make a big difference. I’m sure other schools give a great deal of weight to essays as well, I only know that at Chicago they are given high priority. Kids with stellar test scores and GPA’s get turned down, while kids with much less stellar GPA’s get accepted based on those essays. As their acceptance letter reads, “Our decision was not based on your numbers, but your achievements and your words…”</p>
<p>Susanna: As I think some one has already stated, the growing use of the common application makes applying to many colleges much easier, if not cheaper.</p>
<p>Unless you have to go to a top 10 uni, or get significant merit aid, or can’t find a safety you really like. . .6-9 schools should do it.</p>
<p>I think there is an upward trend, as even state schools are now more competitive than ever before.</p>
<p>I know some people who applied to 12+ schools… I only applied to 5.</p>
<p>I disagree with the idea that the common ap makes applying to many more schools so easy. Of the schools my kids applied to that used the common ap, all had secondary applications with their own particular essays. Thus, these still took extra time and care.
Also, at our school, the teachers write one general recommendation that goes to all schools, so they just have to fill out a cover sheet/check list for each individual school (unless they use the common ap–then there’s no extra work for the teacher). Same for the guidance counselor.
My kids each got their lists down to 8 schools, which included about 3 reaches, 3 targets, and 2 safeties.</p>