<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/business/25teen.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/business/25teen.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin</a></p>
<p>By PETER S. GOODMAN
Published: May 25, 2008</p>
<p>One factor I think that plays a big part but isn’t mentioned in the aritcle, is minimum wage. It’s simply too high, and when employers are already reluctant to add jobs, this doesn’t help. Market forces should determine the price for labor, not some guys sitting in the statehouse. And this is coming from a kid with a summer job paying just barely above minimum wage.</p>
<p>Min wage is too high? Have you tried living on $8/hr before you write this? Yeah, if you only want pocket money this would seem like a lot of money. Try raising a family on that.</p>
<p>But the majority of people on minimum wage are too young too raise a family ([Source](<a href=“Tables 1 ‐ 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2005 : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics”>Tables 1 ‐ 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2005 : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics)</a>). I definitely hope all businesses will pay their employees a wage they can make a decent living on, I just don’t think the government should decide that. If we have teenagers willing to work for $6/hour, and employers willing to pay them that (but not $8/hr), why won’t the government let them? Keeping the market wage artificially high leads to results like we see in the article, where people can’t find jobs.</p>
<p>The main reason young people, particularly African American males, arent’ getting those first jobs here in my area is because the jobs they’d start with are taken by illegal immigrants.</p>
<p>
The minimum wage was instituted precisely because businesses, when left to their own discretion, tend NOT to pay a living wage. Some, like Walmart, refuse to do it to this day. I agree with you that the majority of minimum wage jobs are taken by kids (thank you for providing a source). However, unless you are willing to legislate a separate minimum wage for 18 and under, the current system is the best there is. </p>
<p>The problem with any law is that the big disagreements always arise in the gray areas, and this is no exception. How would you treat a 18-year old single mother or young father, who had to quit school and works to support their kid? The minimum wage law is designed to protect these individuals and I am perfectly satisfied to let the majority who use the min wage as source of pocket money (my daughter) suffer to protect the minority who cannot survive without it (the hypothetical 18-year old above).</p>
<p>
In my experience the jobs “taken” by illegal immigrants are usually considered to be below your average teen. How else does one explain that the Burger Kings of the world are heavily staffed by Hispanic teens and adults, even in heavily African American communities?</p>
<p>How many US-born teens would willingly dig ditches for pocket money? Or clean people’s houses? Or work the fields? Heck, I am making my daughter pay most of her expenses this summer only to force her to take ANY job. She has lived a very sheltered life, hopefully she does not find anything she finds somewhat enjoyable and ends up flipping burgers. This ought to show her why doing well in college while mom and dad shell out $50k/year is the right thing to do, and why she does not want to end up with a job like that once she graduates.</p>
<p>“In my experience the jobs “taken” by illegal immigrants are usually considered to be below your average teen. How else does one explain that the Burger Kings of the world are heavily staffed by Hispanic teens and adults, even in heavily African American communities?”</p>
<p>Maybe your experience takes you to ritzier areas than mine.</p>
<p>I know many, many kids who would kill to have those fast food jobs. A bakers is opening not far from my home. The were looking for dishwashers, waitresses, assistant bakers and had lines around the block of teenagers trying to get those jobs. They’re having a hard time, though, because the owner of several delis has purchased two homes and moved in his illegal immigrant workers and their families, so the large numbers of people living in those houses are taking all the jobs in the neighborhood. I’m glad things are better in your area.</p>
<p>It is all about economics. Illegal immigrant come to America for better life. If economy is better somewhere else they will flock there.</p>
<p>I know a college kid digging ditches this summer. He’s actually physically digging ditches … for a lawn sprinkler installer. I always thought that digging ditches was code for dead end physical labor – but suppose he ends the summer as the foreman of his crew (not impossible)?</p>
<p>“but suppose he ends the summer as the foreman of his crew (not impossible)?”</p>
<p>Then he should be proud.</p>
<p>michigan has a higher minimum wage than the country [right now it’s $7.15…it’ll be $7.45 this july…], and also has a different minimum wage for those under 18. for those under 18, minimum wage is 85% of what it is for adults. that means that for teens, minimum wage is only $6.09.</p>
<p>for a year and a half, i worked as a bagger at kroger. i was in a union. the contract said that baggers started off making $6.50/hour, and after 6 months, got a raise to $6.75/hour. after that, no more raises were to be given, and baggers were stuck at the wage of $6.75/hour. However, once the minimum wage was raised, everyone age 18 or above got a raise. everyone below 18? got nothing.
so even though i’d been working there over a year, as a 17 year old, i only made $6.75. the kid who got hired last week, but was 6 months older than me and 18? he got $7.15.
is that fair?
this is why i disagree with the idea that minimum wage should be different for teens than it is for adults. turning 18 doesn’t make one magically better at their job, and it shouldn’t mean they get a raise either.</p>
<p>
Is he a DitchWitch operator?</p>
<p>I gather he’s working with a shovel!</p>
<p>D2 (16) has a summer job but had to really jump through hoops to get it! On line interview, phone interview and finally sit down in person interview. There were tons of forms to fill out and she had to show her official birth certificate, social security card and driver’s license. She’ll make $8.00 per hr. Plus she had to pay for FBI background check out of her own pocket and print up hundreds of pages of the training manual from our computer. If you didn’t have some money to start with you would never get hired! D1 also found a job that pays and she will get college credit as an internship. We feel very fortunate that they were able to find something but I also think they were hired because of specialized skills and past volunteer experiences.</p>
<p>If your kids are proficient with computers, programming or any of the related constellation of skills, IT can often be a lucrative opportunity (either in-house, or just doing freelance work). That’s what I’m doing this summer - pays very well, and isn’t too ridiculous in terms of work, so I figure it’s the perfect summer job. ;)</p>
<p>Mine already has a job that pays $8+ but she went somewhere to buy something and they said she can work there, the job is in an office that pays $10/hour. But she still thinks that getting a job a waitress pays more. ::rolleyes::</p>
<p>My son just learned an hour ago that he got a summer gig. I think it’s about $8/hour and is tangentially in his area of interest. It’ll be great for his resume. He’s really happy to get it.</p>
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<p>When WashMom and I were young, she managed a Carl’s Jr. restaurant for a couple of years. She managed a staff of about 35 mostly-young people. (For those of you who don’t know, Carl’s is sort of like a nicer MacDonald’s – you line up to order at a counter, but someone brings your food out to the dining room for you. It’s basically a burger place.)</p>
<p>Based on WashMom’s experience back in the day the reasons for hiring recent immigrants over teenagers include:</p>
<ul>
<li> Immigrants show up on sunny days. They don’t go to the beach.</li>
<li> Immigrants don’t miss work because their boy (or girl) friend invite them out.</li>
<li> Immigrants don’t work for three or four weeks and then stop showing up for work.</li>
<li> Immigrants are mostly older and more mature.</li>
<li> Immigrants don’t whine.</li>
<li> Immigrants work hard. They are more diligent.</li>
<li> It’s more cost effective to pay an adult immigrant $12 an hour than to pay a kid $8 an hour – they are worth the extra money.</li>
<li> Work rules for minors are restrictive, most immigrant workers are not minors.</li>
</ul>
<p>In essence, immigrants show up on time, work hard, and don’t quit when they get bored. They make better employees.</p>
<p>(Of course, this doesn’t apply to all immigrants and all American kids. Yada yada. Disclaimer.)</p>
<p>Both of our sons got jobs delivering pizzas this summer…one for Domino’s and one for Papa John’s. They are making $10-17/hour (after gas expense) depending on the evening. And these places are desperate for drivers! Now, S2 does point out that pizza deliverymen are the 3rd most likely occupation to be killed on the job. Yikes! </p>
<p>We live in Houston, but I think the reason that this job hasn’t been taken by illegal immigrants is that you have to show your driver’s license and insurance and have all that verified. Many illegal aliens don’t have drivers licenses.</p>
<p>Interesting footnote…both S’s have found that people living in modest circumstances (apartments, trailers, etc.) tip much more generously than people in mansions. Though the drivers are making good money, they do have to average a $1.50 tip for each run to be making any money at all after they buy gas. Fortunately, there are generous tippers out there that make up for the deadbeats.</p>
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<p>One could also argue that Carl’s Jr. franchisees are merely exploiting the vulnerabilities of undocumented immigrants, and subsequently profiting off of unlawful activity. Obviously, there must be reasons why American workers are not so enamored with the working conditions there. Nothing to be proud of.</p>