What did her ticket say? Seems like there is an easy way to figure this out.
You would think so but she was so upset and by that time, verbally abusive, that it didn’t matter whether the airline had changed her seat or she had simply made a mistake while booking. She made it clear (trust me, loud and clear) she wouldn’t sit down unless she got that particular aisle seat. Since the other traveler had a ticket and boarding pass showing he was in the correct seat, he wasn’t about to move. So she was escorted (well, dragged) off the plane
The rest of us just sat there with our mouths open watching the scene before us.
Well. She had some nerve if his ticket showed he had a claim to that seat, too.
The wife of a former ‘chief executive’ (=governor) of Hong Kong, Betty Tung, famously wouldn’t fly if she didn’t get seat 1A in first class. It was not acceptable to her that anyone would have something that could be perceived as better than she got. There were news reports of occasional struggles by flight crew trying to get other first class passengers to move for her benefit.
I think I’d tell them I was a man and ask if they’d like me to prove it 
I don’t pretend to be tolerant of religion- especially when it inconveniences my life.
(OTOH I am the first to volunteer to move for a family or to move to a later flight due to over-crowding. All seats are uncomfortable to me so if I can make someone a little more comfortable, I’ll do it- unless it’s for sexist, racist, etc reasons.)
Silly woman. Doesn’t she know seat 1A has no under-seat stowage space for your Hermes handbag?
“To me, switching seats in a plane for a situation like that is not all that different from our church making sure that we have beef sausage rather than pork when we make breakfast at the homeless shelter, just in case there is a Jewish or Islamic resident that morning.”
What about Hindu residents? They can’t eat beef.
^ I would also assume that they have vegetarian choices as well. I don’t think Hindus eat eggs either. However, this is a homeless shelter and so, people who come here are in need of a meal and probably not in a position to choose. While religions have dietary laws, I don’t think they mandate that people starve. I know that in Judaism, saving a life overrides laws, and so dietary laws are suspended when one has no choice of what to eat and we have to eat to live.
For many religions, observance is on a spectrum. People who observe dietary laws strictly often live in communities where resources are available. Someone who is strictly Kosher or Halal wouldn’t eat beef that isn’t Kosher or Halal, and would live in areas with a large enough observant population that this food would be available. Less observant people do the best they can in their situation. I know of Jewish, Muslim and Hindu students who eat in the college cafeteria with everyone else. None of the food is prepared under strict Kosher/Hallal regulations. They make their food choices according to what is available.
The church is gracious to provide choices and in essence, is doing a charitable and good deed. I am sure the people who are hungry and come to eat a meal are appreciative of both the food and the consideration.
For all spectrums of beliefs and behaviors, there are extremes. Some of these discussions are about the extremes. I have not been to areas such as Monsey NY, but from what I have read, this is at the most strict of observance. IMHO, it is at the extremes where we see rigid, and extreme behaviors. This can be both the culture as well as the personalities of people who are attracted to the extremes. The extremes don’t reflect an entire spectrum of observance or beliefs.
People of any backround can also behave badly. The Jewish kids on a school trip who acted up on the plane was, I believe, more about being unruly disrespectful kids than religion. I don’t think it was actually necessary to identify the religion when discussing unruly kids on a plane. I think this behavior was not condoned by anyone, including other Jews. When Gerard Depardieu urinated on a plane, it was more about him. We didn’t see the headline “Frenchman urinates on plane.”
I also don’t think being disruptive over a seat on a plane should be condoned for any reason. I think it is acceptable to make a request, and let the other person choose what to do, but ultimately, if the goal is to travel on a plane, then one needs to follow the rules of conduct on that plane.
You would have a seat for your Hermes bag. It is also bad luck to put handbag on the floor, according to Chinese. 
Serious question, then: When getting ready for takeoff, one is not allowed to hold anything in one’s lap. Do Chinese women therefore store their handbags in the overhead bin and not under the seat in front of them?
I only brought this up because some of the kids claimed they were kicked off the plane because of anti-Semitism, not because they were being unruly. That’s why it got on the news.
You’re right. I don’t agree with the kids doing this. Pulling that excuse isn’t right and just makes it more difficult for people to enforce rules of conduct for anybody. This includes adults. If a grown man behaves badly, I don’t agree with him using antisemitism as an excuse. On the other hand, if he were to ask politely to change seats, and allow the other person to make a choice, and he accepts that choice without misbehaving, it isn’t necessary to debate his beliefs.
Ideally, I wish none of this became public attention, but it was behaviors that brought it to attention. I don’t think bad behavior should be condoned, but it worries me when bad behavior is generalized to a grouping of people.
If he were to ask politely, allow the other person to make a choice and accept that choice without misbehaving, we wouldn’t have this thread.
“The context of this prayer is that it rests between “that He hasn’t made me a gentile” and “that He hasn’t made me a slave” - in other words, “thanks for allowing me to have more commandments to be able to follow.” The idea that it was created because women are worse or lesser is an outside projection or speculation.”
I think that the context you highlight supports my reading, not yours. Gentiles and slaves aren’t privileged. They have less access to the Divine than Jewish men. The prayer in its full context is like saying, “Thanks for not making me a rat, a dog, or a pig,” and then claiming that you mean this as a compliment to the dog. Really? Look at the company it keeps.
I am not in any way “outside” when it comes to interpretation of this text (except, of course, for the fact that I’m a woman). I’m a Jew speaking about my own tradition. Our law recognizes no denominations or streams; we are all Jews. At any rate, pointing to “outsideness” is an ad hominem argument – if the viewpoint is supported by the text and the evidence, it shouldn’t matter who it came from.
A somewhat more lighthearted look: https://vimeo.com/110568828
Personally, I’d like to see the airlines grow a backbone and deplane the ultra-orthodox who behave badly. Maybe a few dozen obnoxious passengers losing the value of their tickets would help the ultra-orthodox decide to either quit flying, buy two adjoining seats, or charter a plane.
Does anyone else wonder about the concept that the Torah forbids a Cohen from FLYING over a cemetery? Flying? Really?
This thread brought back memories of a flight DH and I took from Dubai to Atlanta. Our flight was a scheduled to depart Dubai at 10pm but was delayed 4 hours due to required crew rest. We were a planeful of very tired people boarding that 2am flight. Then the plane was delayed even further while awaiting 3 more late arriving passengers. During this delay, there was a near fist fight when a young child was continually kicking the back of another passenger’s seat. The 3 female passengers finally got on the plane, only to find that their seats were not together. The older of the three women (I assumed she was the mother) made a huge scene that the 2 younger women could “not sit by a man” - this on a flight that was 75-80% male. The male gate attendant told her that the plane had been held for them and that they needed to take their seats or get off the plane. The mother continued to loudly restate, “they cannot sit by a man”, and the gate attendant insisted on his position that they needed to take their seats or get off the plane. After a short time of this stand-off, a couple of male passengers agreed to move to free up a row of three seats for the women to sit in. Whew! We could then be on our way.
Another humorous anecdote from that flight - the flight finally took off at about 3 am, the cabin was darkened, and everyone settled in to sleep. Then an hour later, all the cabin lights were raised because it was dinner time, yes at 4 am!
That video is hilarious.
I haven’t given the prohibition about airplanes flying over cemetaries much thought. It’s a concept that originated from the time when their was a central temple and that temple was destroyed approximately 70 CE. Since that time, many temple associated rituals were not done, and the role of cohen ( priests) has not be utilized like that.
There is a concept of ritual impurity and one thing that makes one ritually impure is association with a corpse. The Cohens are not supposed to be ritually impure, as very orthodox Jews believe that one day the temple will be restored and the cohens would be needed for their duties. A Cohen is not supposed to be a certain distance from a cemetary, and the boundary extends indefinitely into the sky ,so a cohen needs to avoid flying over one.
This isn’t for sake of argument. I am not a Cohen. I get on planes and sit next to anyone. However ,for someone who wishes to follow this, he would not be on the plane in the first place, if it is going over a cemetary, so no passengers would be asked to change seats.
There is one modern contribution of the concept of Cohens. Determining who is a Jew has been traditionally through the mother ( Reform Judaism considers either mother or father if child is raised Jewish). However, being a Cohen is patrilinear. This has resulted in some consistency over the years on the Y chromosome of a Cohen. This has led to some interesting genetic research.
Seems like it would be difficult to know in advance whether a flight would cross the airspace of a cemetery.
From how I understand, I think it is possible to know the flight path as well as the location of large ,historic, cemetaries. I agree though, that it would be impossible to know every single one of them. From what I have read, it isn’t a problem if the passenger does not know where they are, but if one is known, one should make an effort to avoid it.
One problem is that this idea was established long before the use of modern transportation. Adaptations to airplanes are interpretation. I think there is leniency on this one in the case that the route is not avoidable ( like in an emergency or there is an unkown). A bigger issue is travelling on a plane with a casket in the cargo, and I think that is something to arrange with the airline in advance.
One reason this doesn’t get into the news ( as far as I know) as it is an individual decision and so ,passengers would not be asked to move or accommodate this. I also don’t know how frequent this happens, as not all Jews, or descendents of Cohens are that religiously strict.
It’s more of an issue with an individual’s conscience than the unexpected or unknown flying over a cemetary.