<p>The schools which I applied to fall into 3 general categories: Ones in and around DC, one in NYC, and ones in upstate NY. The schools near the cities, while still good, are measurably weaker in academics when compared to the ones in upstate NY. Of course the downside to the colleges in upstate NY is their distance from a major city. While the upstate colleges still offer Summer internship opportunities, I imagine there are benefits to having access to a major city throughout the school year. </p>
<p>In addition to needing to compare the issue of urban vs “rural,” I need to consider what each city offers for my interests. I plan to major in a mix of economics and government. DC is the seat of one of the largest governments on Earth and NYC is one of the economic capitals of the world. But of course these descriptions oversimplify the matter since NYC has a massive city government and the headquarters of the UN while DC has important global economic institutions like the IMF and various Federal economic departments. </p>
<p>So just to summarize my question: Is it better to go to a more prestigious school or an urban school that may not be as well recognized? If it is better to go to a school in the city, which one provides better opportunities for someone looking to major in economics and government? </p>
<p>can we quit dancing around the subject and name names, because you don’t seem to be talking about all nyc schools or all dc schools and certainly upstate ny could mean cornell or colgate or Hamilton or schools of that caliber?</p>
<p>I’ve not met a lot of Cornell grads in econ or govt who regretted going to cornell. Summers are for internships in nyc and dc if you go to cornell. The same with the other two upstate schools. These schools put their students in internships. Colgate for instance has a fantastic alumni network, to rival cornell’s. You cannot go wrong at these schools. Or at schools in nyc and dc–they too can put you into the networks.</p>
<p>So what are the nyc and dc schools we’re comparing to the upstate schools so that we can judge whether you’d do better in upstate ny or the big apple or dc? And how are you going to pay for these schools? Have you and your parents run the net price calculators for each of them? Do you have an EFC and have your parents agreed to pay it? This is the most important question when you’re thinking about where to apply. </p>
<p>There are no objective answers to this question. It really depends on the individual institutions and what kinds of opportunities they offer, as well as your own needs and desires.</p>
<p>There are students who go to more rural/suburban colleges (schools like Dartmouth, Bowdoin and Middlebury come to mind) all the time who have great outcomes because those schools are well-known and offer lots of different kinds of opportunities. There are economic and government institutions in small towns, too, and sometimes those are more accessible because there’s less competition for the internships there. Also note that some of these programs have exchange opportunities in place with schools in bigger cities. Lots of students come to Columbia or NYU for a semester, and you can arrange to intern in the city while you do that. (Or Georgetown, GWU, American, etc., in DC.)</p>
<p>It also depends on what you mean by ‘prestigious’ or ‘recognized.’ Note that these aren’t synonymous with quality, although there is some overlap. Are we comparing, let’s say, Bard College (a great LAC in Annandale-on-Hudson) and Fordham (which IMO is a very underrated institution)? Or are you comparing Pace to Skidmore or Vassar? I would think that students from Skidmore or Vassar may have better overall opportunities than students from Pace or LIU, for example (although that may be an unfair generalization). I have observed that name <em>does</em> play a role in summer internship placement. Students at top firms, especially in economics and government, do tend to go to better-known schools. Also, the career services offices at better-quality schools are likely better as well. Columbia has a phenomenal career services office, IMO. Better than most of the students here probably realize (I went somewhere else for undergrad, so I can make the comparison.) Having big-time alumni connections is a benefit for these kinds of things.</p>
<p>So the summary answer is: There’s no one answer; it depends on the individual opportunities that are available. If it is VERY important to you to intern in a big-city firm or a federal or international governmental agency during term-time, going to school in DC or New York may be important to you. If you are also interested in quality/prestige and will be satisfied with perhaps small-town internships during the term time but summer or exchange opportunities, then one of the other schools may be fine for you.</p>
<p>I avoided specifying schools since I’m still at varying stages of acceptance for each one (Some I’m in and could go to without anything else, some I’m still waiting for scholarships, some don’t release even regular decisions until April.) and I wanted a general enough answer that I could apply to any choice I ultimately had to make. However, if it really helps to know the schools: </p>
<p>DC: GMU (In honors but out of state so I am waiting for scholarship), GWU, and AU. (Both waiting on regular decision and dependent on big scholarships)
NYC: Baruch (In but waiting on honors)
Upstate NY: Binghamton (In) and Cornell (Deferred waiting for regular admissions)</p>
<p>Even if I separated out the expensive private schools from the more affordable options, there are still noticeable differences. </p>
<p>So obviously there may ultimately be other factors which eliminate some options from me, but I am definitely accepted to at least one school per indicated category, so this decision about location/opportunities vs academics/notability of the school will definitely play some role. </p>
<p>so the three of us agree on at least one thing: it’s going to come down to the particular schools and their particular FA packages. There is only a possibility, then, that the prestige of, really, one of these schools could play a factor–and at that school you are currently deferred. So you have no decisions to make yet. The DC schools have significant weaknesses, but getting internships is not one of them. I cannot speak to Baruch.</p>
<p>So if you don’t get into Cornell, do you go with the best EFC package? do you favor GWU over the other schools if the EFC is roughly equal? We don’t have enough info yet. Am I correct in this thinking?</p>
<p>The way we are looking at the cost is less about where we will pay the least so much as it is about getting the cost to an acceptable level for what the school provides. For everything but Cornell that cost is somewhere bellow 30k/yr. So the way I’m looking at this is assuming I got scholarships to bring everything bellow the acceptable mark, which would I choose. </p>
<p>I guess there is the potential that I won’t get the necessary scholarships at any of the DC schools, but that seems unlikely and given that GW and AU don’t make decisions until April I want to have an idea of what I would pick if it came down to choosing between regions so that I can get deposits in early.</p>
<p>From what my Dad has told me, we don’t qualify for need based financial aid, so cost will just be based on merit scholarships.</p>
<p>The best way I can think of framing the question is this: Let’s say after I get everything back, my options were Baruch honors, GMU university scholars, or Binghamton. (All 3 are public schools. All 3 I have already been accepted into on one level or another. Each fits into one of the regional categories that I am debating.) With housing costs the 3 of them are close enough to consider them on other non price factors. So between the 3 we have: Binghamton, a large research school with relatively selective admissions and good academics, but is in the middle of nowhere. Then there are Baruch and GMU, decent but statistically weaker schools in big cities. What are reasons I would go with one over the others based around region vs relative “prestige” of each? (Note that while I get there are differences, I am using prestige interchangeably with terms like academic strength, selectivity, etc. For the sake of generalization and brevity.)</p>
<p>GMU is not in the city of DC, of course, so it’s not like you can pop out of class and be at the World Bank in a flash. It does have a metro stop but you’ll have to take a GMU shuttle to get there; metro will take you to almost everywhere important inside the region. GMU has a reputation as a commuter school, that kids evacuate the campus on Friday afternoon; check this out with the students and school staff. Few students live on campus. I understand that it is less commuter than it was, but how much less? GMU has a very good men’s basketball team and a pretty nice venue, the Patriot Center, for hoops and concerts. Lots of big-name acts that bring people in from all over the area. GMU is a state school and is sometimes subject to the vagaries of state funding, as most state schools are. You have to decide where you best fit in, where you can do your best work. At any of these schools you’re going to be the one who determines what you get out of your education. The reputation of the school won’t matter a lick. It’s all about you and what you do with the resources available to you, dude. No one is going to make a distinction between these three schools once you graduate. They are going to assess you and what you’ve accomplished.</p>
<p>I think you are right to be thinking about this. In my experience (I went to NYU undergrad in the past 5 years), the in-term opportunities in the city are a. less competitive and b. you don’t have pay room and board for them during the summer! I would think about GMU really carefully and seek out GMU students to ask them about their experience and that of their friends. I think the internship experience is part of your overall education and if you are at Binghamton, you will be competing for summer opportunities with students from more prestigious schools. Bing is a stellar school, but you need to research what kind of resumes Political Science students are leaving with. For example, do they have some formally organized programs? In my experience, students like yourself can fall through the cracks and not get on a career-track job because you did not choose your school carefully. Government/Economics is a common interest, and related internships do not require a set-in-stone skillset, so students who are exposed to the most opportunities tend to get on the right track and students with a more bleak resume tend to end up settling for something they don’t want after graduation. </p>
<p>* The best way I can think of framing the question is this: Let’s say after I get everything back, my options were Baruch honors, GMU university scholars, or Binghamton. (All 3 are public schools. All 3 I have already been accepted into on one level or another. Each fits into one of the regional categories that I am debating.) With housing costs the 3 of them are close enough to consider them on other non price factors. So between the 3 we have: Binghamton, a large research school with relatively selective admissions and good academics, but is in the middle of nowhere. Then there are Baruch and GMU, decent but statistically weaker schools in big cities. What are reasons I would go with one over the others based around region vs relative academic quality/reputation of each*</p>
<p>…none? Or rather, they are likely to be highly personal. I wouldn’t say there’s enough of a difference in the academic reputation of George Mason and SUNY-Binghamton to make a significant difference in your choices. Baruch, in the city, is known as kind of the “business college” of the CUNYs. It also does not have a subscribed traditional campus like Bing and GMU. You do have the benefit of access to NYC’s internships, but you need to be reasonably sure that an urban university experience (as opposed to the stereotypical suburban/rural campus with a quad kind of experience) is what you want.</p>
<p>GWU and American are so expensive on their own that I think that merit scholarships will definitely make a big difference here. Assuming that they make it affordable through scholarships, I would attend either of those schools over GMU, Bing, or Baruch. It’s not even just about the location in DC (which is a plus!) but the academic quality and reputation of the schools, and the kind of student experience you’ll probably get there.</p>
<p>And Cornell is Cornell. No, it’s not in a big city and no, New York is not easily accessible from Ithaca. But the top government and business orgs/corps in the country (and world) will be recruiting you from junior year on. But if your family is not eligible for financial aid and is looking to pay less than $30,000, this is unlikely to be a viable option for you. They don’t give scholarships.</p>
<p>Remember that in addition to earning a credential for a future career, college is also an experience - while you want to be sure that a campus has the academic reputation you want, you also want to be sure it fosters the kind of social and personal growth you desire and will give you the experience you want. Some people would rather have the urban college/collection of buildings experience that Baruch provides, or want the commuter-campus experience of GMU. Others want the more residential-campus experience of American, GWU, Cornell, or Binghamton.</p>
<p>Before assuming that you won’t qualify for financial aid, run the Net Price Calculators on each website. In addition to that, you’ll be allowed to borrow $5,500 for freshman year, that’s it (it’s already plenty). So do it anyway and discuss the results with your parents. You never know. Don’t be one of these kids who post in March or April that they got into schools their parents can’t afford (because the parents never actually looked at how much it’d cost).</p>
<p>re: Bing vs. Baruch: it depends on whether you want a “campus experience” or not. In my opinion, you have years and years when you’ll be able to live in the city as an adult. Take advantage of the college experience when you can - if you don’t, then it won’t happen. You’ll never be 20 and an undergrad again. However ymmv, and you may prefer being in a big city. With Baruch, you’ll be able to have internships during the school year, which is easier to get and incorporated into the curriculum. With Bing, you should ask what percentage of students in your major get internships and where they get them.</p>
<p>GMU is a commuter school so I would rank it last, simply because it empties out on weekends. </p>
<p>However, what matters is how well you do where you are. </p>
<p>I appreciate a lot of the advice being given, but this is why I originally tried to frame the question generally. I’m OK with the feel of all the schools mentioned here. The only colleges that I applied to but didn’t like were ones I’ve pre-excluded from the list above since I have better options. When it comes to cost we already have an idea of what is acceptable to us and what is not. Other more personal factors are being considered separately. </p>
<p>The thing that I cannot adequately evaluate on my own is the tradeoff between academics and regular access to internship opportunities, and if the answer is internship opportunities, which city would be better for this purpose.</p>
<p>Once again, I am very thankful for all the help and I know everyone means well, but I am looking for a slightly narrower answer.</p>
<p>GMU is increasing its rep in various fields and many do consider it a target, same as many in NY state like Bing. But this question isn’t quite as you pose it. Much of the possibility for experiences will depend on you, your willingness to identify and pursue opportunities and how qualified you make yourself. </p>
<p>It’s been said many times on CC, that when one is actually in one of those plum internships, many of the other kids are from wherever. So, in what sort of environment will you personally be empowered? As well as socially and academically satisfied? envision it. Is “city” so important that Ithaca and Cornell’s rep wouldn’t be enough? Will you use the time in NYC to pore over developments and trends? Or the time in DC to monitor current events and goings on? Where will you get engaged in campus activities, gain some leadership (which isn’t all about titles; it can include how you refine your thinking and go forth.)</p>
<p>Yes, GW puts you right in the thick of things, walking distance to much, but some campus. AU is another mile or so out, a bus or Metro ride, but what the heck, everyone does it. Living in DC, you have to hide pretty well to miss the impact. In general, there’s a higher level of everyday awareness of the power structure, representation of the country and influences. Assuming you’re not just focused on campus life. </p>
<p>But for your choices, the location doesn’t guarantee you will get an internship (imagine how many compete, from everywhere, for opps in finance in NYC. Or for the govt or organizational opps in DC.) Or you may aim for something plum in Chicago or SF. So look at this persoanally and holistically.</p>
<p>* The thing that I cannot adequately evaluate on my own is the tradeoff between academics and regular access to internship opportunities, and if the answer is internship opportunities, which city would be better for this purpose.*</p>
<p>I think the problem is that you are assuming that there is some objective, generalizable answer to this question, and there is not. It’s a highly personal question that only you can really decide for yourself.</p>
<p>You’re also assuming that your access to internship opportunities will be greater in New York or DC. Well, there may be more internships, but there are also more college students - and there are also more poor struggling recent college graduates who are willing to work for little or no pay, too, in order to get their foot in the door and can do so full-time, as well as other people who are dying to move to those cities permanently. You face far more competition, and in the case of NYC face competition from the higher-ranked colleges like NYU, Columbia, and Fordham. You never know, maybe SUNY Bing has a relationship with the mayor’s office or county seat or something. Maybe there’s a Bing alum just waiting to hire Bing interns in their office.</p>
<p>In addition, you assuming that you can make objective decisions about components of a school separately and compare them by, say tallying them up; I argue that that is incredibly difficult to do and largely unproductive. As lookingforward said, you need to consider these schools holistically.</p>
<p>In some fields, the major and the classwork it requires is enough to get hired in the field. </p>
<p>You are not talking about those majors and those fields. For people like yourself, I would recommend: </p>
<ul>
<li>Limited number of top colleges with national name recognition</li>
<li>Colleges with a strong reputation in your field specifically </li>
<li>Colleges with outlined, organized opportunities in your field</li>
<li>Colleges with strong career services</li>
<li>Colleges with strong alumni networks</li>
<li>Colleges located in cities where these opportunities are concentrated</li>
</ul>
<p>I agree there is not enough of a difference between Binghamton and GMU. </p>
<p>I don’t like it when colleges say “our students have interned at <strong><em>.” Look more for “we match you up with” or “our internship program with </em></strong> has been sending x students to x city for x years.” You are looking for the college to organize some opportunities for you. I am not saying that it can’t be done on your own, but it’s nice if it’s done for you and you’re not competing with students applying from every college in the U.S., but just with internal applicants to the program. </p>
<p>Edited to add:
This is where rankings throw you off. </p>
<p>Just weighing in here on GMU in particular. GMU has 8,000 students living on campus, 2,000 of them freshmen - it is NOT a commuter school any more. Yes, there are still many students who commute (especially older students and grad students) but the campus is not a ghost town on weekends. My son lives on campus and is constantly busy with friends, clubs and activities. </p>
<p>As for internship opportunities, my son at GMU had a great paid internship over the summer and was able to stay on during the school year while other the student interns had to return to their more remote campuses. This is putting him in a better position to be hired after graduation, and GMU has one of the top “return on investment” rankings for engineering students perhaps in part due to this factor (ranked 6th in the US). So if internship opportunities year round are a top priority for you, then location matters. Having said that, you could still have great summer internships wherever you attend college, so not having year round access to internships does not strike me as a significant handicap. Good luck in your decision!</p>