https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/ask/faq/question/2362
Thanks. Looks like their version of ABET standards, that will have some required emphasis on non technical courses.
And Chicago doesn’t offer engineering. Not sure about BC, but Columbia reduces the number of humanities core classes it requires of engineers:
https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/ask/faq/question/2362
This is what I meant up-thread about how hard (i.e, EXPENSIVE) it is to acquire a true core curriculum education (which, apparently, in addition to advanced rigor, also requires “a lot more than six courses outside your field or major”) AND an engineering degree. Most students have to choose one or the other, and if engineering is the priority, they most often elect to take the more traditional path and matriculate into the engineering college.
yeah, I get that a four-year degree is expensive and I get that Engineers have an extremely rigorous curriculum already. But Harvey Mudd has found a way, as has Columbia to squeeze them in.
But let’s put the Eng students as vocational curriculum outliers. Chem and Physics students, which are included the definition of liberal arts, can certainly fulfill a bunch of Core requirements; they certainly do at Columbia.
Engineering is a profession. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocational_education
As has already been noted ,Columbia SEAS students do not take the same amount of Core classes as those students in the College do. Harvey Mudd’s Common Core Curriculum is actually quite technically based, not unlike the classes in other ABET accredited engineering programs. ABET programs also include writing courses and classes/electives in non technical subjects.
https://www.hmc.edu/academics/common-core-curriculum/
MIT and the CSUs also fit in substantial H/SS courses for engineering majors, whether or not you think that they are specified enough to be a “core”.
Of course, MIT is kind of an outlier in that its general education or core requires H/SS majors to get a much more substantial education in math and science than most other schools (no “physics for poets” or “rocks for jocks” courses there).
I looked up one CSU eng program: ~25% of units are in lit/hum fields = I like.
Looked up the similar major at UCLA – no like.
btw: even the ‘requirements’ at UCLA can be waived by high school credits. My son’s friend, bombed the AP Gov test, but earned an B in the high school course. (Senior spring, and the easiest teacher in the HS’ perfect for those senior-itis blues. Lowest grade = Gentleperson’s B-.) UCLA Eng waived a requirement based on his high school grade.
BC doesn’t have engineering, either.
Re #86 and the UCLA requirement
It is only the specific requirement (American history and institutions) that can be fulfilled by high school work. Most students enter having already fulfilled it, so it is not properly considered part of the general education required at UCLA.
How much and what math and science do people here think humanities and social studies majors should have to take?
Going back to MIT just for fun-
My MIT son loved his humanities classes, and in fact, this spring semester of his senior year as a math major, he’s only taking three classes and all of them are music classes. 
“How much and what math and science do people here think humanities and social studies majors should have to take?”
Math - one class of a calculus based math class, does not have to be super high level.
Science - one class of a laboratory based science.
Both of these will introduce a different way of viewing the world. That is what matters here.
On the “math” side, statistics and something where logical reasoning is practiced would probably be among the more helpful things generally for students of all majors. Logical reasoning is theoretically taught in high school geometry, but it appears that such skills are commonly deficient, so that additional practice at the college level would help. Courses containing that include some in math, philosophy, and computer science.
I think a Logical thinking class should be required of all students.
jmho
At least 4, total. I guess I’d be ok with 3/1, or 1/3, or 2-2.
I wrote this yesterday but didn’t post, and it looks like others have gotten to this point already, so if they have, my apologies.
To the OP’s original question about defunding the Liberal Arts, a simple answer: No.
The problem that people focus on is ensuring that STEMmers study some humanities and social science but I think the bigger problem is actually not humanities/SS majors. At my son’s graduation, the president of the university gave a painful speech applauding the increase in the number of students who took poetry classes (she made a name for herself resurrecting a formerly obscure German poet). But the real problem is that a very high proportion of humanities majors and a reasonably high proportion of social science majors don’t learn statistics or computer science in a world in which data is and will drive decisions and software will delete jobs. Yes, the SS major are forced to take a methods course or stats for psych, but these courses are formulaic and they learn nothing about the logic of probability or statistics. Many of the decisions one confronts as an adult are decisions under uncertainty. We have to decide what medical treatment to take (if any), what job to take, which candidate to vote for etc. All of these are decisions in which there is uncertainty and often some data, but most people don’t know rudimentary decision analysis or how to draw conclusions from data. Whole businesses are already run from harvesting data about people’s browsing choices or shopping choices, the weather, financial markets, etc. And, it is clear that most Americans have little if any understanding of the scientific method. This stuff matters to our political decision-making. I think STEMmers should have some exposure to humanities/SS but as far as I can tell, most do. But even more important is ensuring that the non-STEMmers have exposure to real statistics, programming and the scientific method.
@ucbalumnus, I generally agree with your breakdown. Per above, I’d like to see a stats course and possibly a decision analysis course. A course that teaches logical reasoning would be great. When I was teaching decision analysis to MBAs (it was a painful course for H/SS majors other than the quantitative ones, but it was for many, extremely useful), I felt and told them that I was really teaching them a course in logical reasoning. Plus, something that really gets people to understand the scientific method. And then, one class in programming/CS.
I’m not sure I would go so far as to say that social scientists learn “nothing” about the logic of probability or statistics. In general, though, of course, the classes are certainly not as rigorous as an engineering or math student would take . But the research and statistics courses I took as an MSW student decades ago were among my favorite classes. We did the key punch stuff that went into the big mainframe computer back in the day!
I would recommend at least four math/science classes:
- AB Calculus
- Statistics
- Lab science with lab (Physics or chemistry)
- Computer science
Each of these courses can significantly change a person’s understanding of the world.
Your list makes sense to me. How many math/science courses does a typical Liberal Arts major have to take now?