Depends on the major. Obviously, a math major would take more math courses than most other liberal arts majors (“liberal arts” includes math and science).
Assuming that the major does not require math or science courses, it depends on the school. MIT students (including humanities majors) need to take at least 8 math and science courses, and MIT does not offer “physics for poets” type of courses. Brown students do not have any requirement for math and science courses. Getting away from super-selective schools, some math and science is commonly required, but the math may only be at a relatively low level (perhaps precalculus or non-calculus-based statistics), and science courses could be of the “physics for poets” or “rocks for jocks” type.
I never took a precalculus class and barely passed algebra 1 and 2 as a college student. I am not taking calculus.
That was my math GE in community college. Now that I’m an upper division urban planning major, those skills are bread and butter.
Could we expand that list? I was required to do a lab science, and I went with biological anthropology. It was an entire course just on the mechanisms of evolution. Imparted just as much knowledge of the scientific method as physics or chemistry would have, while being more interesting to me.
What counts as a computer science course? I absolutely hate programming, but I’m a Geographic Information Systems minor. Is GIS a form of computer science? It is a set of pretty sophisticated computer skills. It just isn’t programming.
Aside from calculus, I like the list if the categories are opened up a bit.
I’m a bit sad about that. I’m taking an upper division geology course on natural disasters because I value the topic (A California urban planner who knows a bit about earthquakes? Could do worse.), and it’s just so dumbed down. Physical geography at the lower division level covered half this material.
@spaceship “1. AB Calculus
I never took a precalculus class and barely passed algebra 1 and 2 as a college student. I am not taking calculus.”
This course is not difficult. BC Calculus moves quickly, but AB does not. It really gives students a lot of insight into the math behind everything in nature that can’t be modeled using a linear function, which is most things. It only covers the basics and does not get into a lot of complexity.
It is true that Algebra II is difficult. In fact, Newton invented calculus because of the failure of Algebra to be able to explain/model how the world works. Once it is explained, you will discover that many of the most difficult problems that you saw in Algebra II can be solved very easily with calculus.
How it is taught makes all the difference. My 8th grade son’s English homework yesterday was to read Self-Reliance by Emerson and write a one to two page essay explaining what you thought about it. I mean, are they trying to make them all hate English? I am guessing that the percent of ivy league students who could read this piece and clearly understand it without prior knowledge of this essay, or supporting materials, is close to zero. They will understand some parts of it, but not others. Why assign this to Middle Schoolers as homework? As an in-class discussion where a good teacher reads a paragraph and teaches the students how to approach breaking it into understandable components, it could be great. That is true with Calculus too.
I predict that your lack of quant skills will hinder your career. Computers have made tackling Big Data easy, and those without quant skills are being left behind. Hope I’m wrong.
For example, take a look-see at Cal’s Urban Studies major: both Calc and Stats are required.
@bluebayou I’m in an urban planning program at the moment, and haven’t ever needed calculus. I do need strong quant skills, but almost all of it is in statistics, which is one of the most basic tools, alongside GIS software. I’ve taken stats classes, and my Geography minor is devoted to GIS classes. That’s where my quant and computer skills are.
I don’t know why Berkeley would require calc.
As an aside, I did leave high school unqualified to apply to state universities (I was missing one or two math classes, a science class, and two foreign language classes) and with a low C average. My Mom cared about me getting a diploma, not getting me into college. I have some pretty big educational gaps that it just isn’t feasible to close, and I’m betting a lot of other low income/poor school people are in the same boat. Not every teenager has supportive parents or a school that’s worth anything. Money is also an issue. Making calc a requirement would mean two and a half years of remedial math in community college instead of one (Needed a year of algebra. Would have to add a year of precalc, then half a year of calc.). A foreign language means the same, plus a lot of stress. I didn’t have to talk remedial english in community college, but a lot of my peers did. All of that adds up. That’s why I’m so against quant GE requirements. It seems rather brutal to the poorly educated adults trying to climb through CC and university.
I like what my kids have to do:
1 lab science course
1 additional science course with or without lab
1 quantitative course. The lowest math offered is calculus, but it can also be fulfilled through physics, econometrics, or other higher math-intensive courses.
Many non-STEM departments require a stats course for the major as well.
I agree. There is this belief on CC that “critical thinking” is an “exclusive” domain of the “liberal arts”, and that pre-professional programs somehow fail to sprinkle their students with the magic dust.
I have been looking for some sort of evidence that this is true. The closest I can come up with would be the CLA project:
What they have found thus far do not fit that stereotype at all- some liberal arts and some pre-professional programs seem to do a better job of inculcating “critical thinking” than others.
While the work is still ongoing and far from being conclusive, I suspect we are confusing intuition or “braining storming” with critical thinking.
@Spaceship “That’s why I’m so against quant GE requirements. It seems rather brutal to the poorly educated adults trying to climb through CC and university.”
Okay, that makes sense. I would say the GE requirement could be AB Calc or one level higher than you had in high school. It isn’t worth causing a person to fail, but getting on course further would be helpful.
I am glad that you have been able to take Statistics.
CS and Statistics combined give any researcher with a powerful tool. If you are able to fit a couple of CS classes into your schedule, that may allow you to manage research data and construct databases and statistically analyze the data. I could be a good possibility to discuss with your faculty advisor.
For what it is worth, non-calculus-based statistics (including high school AP statistics) generally has a prerequisite of high school algebra 2 or intermediate algebra. Calculus-based statistics obviously requires calculus.
Me, too. I wouldn’t really be able to function well in this major without it.
Depending on how we define CS, I may already have that. When I hear CS, I immediately think about programming. I don’t like programming. That said:
That sounds like [url=http://www-01.ibm.com/software/analytics/spss/products/statistics/]SPSS[/url], Access, or Excel. I’m not bad at Excel and have a basic proficiency with Access, and we’re learning how to use SPSS in my research methods class right now. All of those programs are great for exactly what you describe. What I hate about CS is writing programs.
If you consider Geographic Information Systems a subset of CS, I have a geography minor aimed strictly at taking GIS classes to build up skill with Arc-GIS.
My opposition to CS requirements might just be me hearing CS and immediately jumping to “They want me to learn to write computer programs!”, and having a rather negative reaction. If, by CS, you mean developing strong skills with existing programs, we don’t have any disagreement, and I do have numerous CS skills.
I would suggest that simply taking science courses isn’t going to teach students the scientific method, any more than simply taking philosophy courses will teach students logic, or taking composition courses will teach students to write coherently.
In addition, I understand the focus on course selection, but it’s misguided and focuses too intensely on disciplinary boundaries. I teach a course for the English Department at my institution with a better understanding of the scientific methods as one of its outcomes; there are courses in business and biology here that have improvements in writing abilities among their outcomes.
Just complaining about whether humanities and social science majors take the right number of math and science courses or whether STEM majors take the right number of humanities courses misses what students might actually be learning (or at least what they might be being taught).
A survey course on the humanities at the college level for a kid just trying to check off a box is low value. Yes- the kid will be able to find Omaha Beach on a map after the WW2 portion of the class is over, and can recognize the difference between Giotto and Picasso when two paintings are put on the screen in front of him. But it’s not teaching the critical thinking/judgment skills you want the kid to develop. Same exercise with the math/science deal although a different pathway- you can bundle up all the college level bio or chem you want but without the right context, you’re just teaching a kid to memorize a formula or walk through (zombie like) a bunch of acronyms and facts.