<p>I would like to note that evidence that students are hooking up more doesn’t by itself prove that they are dating less. At Yale, 30-some years ago, people didn’t really “date” that much. They mainly did social stuff in groups, at least the people I knew. They would get “dates” for some major events, like the formal dance in the residential college. I don’t see much difference now, except that there is less going out to do things in groups (like campus movies), and more partying in suites–with more drinking. Perhaps this leads to more hooking up, but it isn’t because of the demise of “dating.”</p>
<p>From the author’s interview,</p>
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<p>I don’t know why we try so hard to discredit the article.</p>
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For me, it’s because I’m annoyed by articles that try to describe some sensationalistic “trend” without doing any work to determine if it’s really a trend. Here, there’s not even sufficient evidence that this is a real trend at the one college the article is about, much less at other colleges, as the article implies. You can’t write a persuasive article on trends just by talking to people around you, even a lot of them.</p>
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<p>“Kill the messanger?” Some lament change because it is change.</p>
<p>Take a look at the demise of marriage as something that preceeds having a child in numerous countries. It seems to me that changes that touch on “moral” issues trigger a lot of energy in people. Birth control, abortion, sex practices, unmarried births etc. Hot button stuff to some.</p>
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<p>For me, it’s because I don’t understand why it’s anyone’s business. These articles come up every few months and they get the same responses. Why not with men? Why does it matter what women are doing behind closed doors, provided that it is their choice? </p>
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<p>Notice how all of these are primarily in a woman’s control? THAT’s why they’re hot-button issues. Women having control over their bodies and lives is still a relatively new thing in the Western world. Some still don’t like it and believe that big brother and old men should be making those decisions.</p>
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<p>I too notice that it seems to be predominately women who “care” what other women are choosing to do behind closed doors.</p>
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<p>“Big brother” or “Big sister?” Recall that birth control pills could first be obtained in the US in1960. It was not until 1965 in Griswold that “the old men” of the SCOTUS said the states could not bar access to them for married people. Then in 1972 in Eisenstadt, the “old men” extended this to unmarrieds.</p>
<p>As to who makes decisions for females, to the extent that you are talking about laws, last time I checked there were more women of voting age in the US than men.</p>
<p>And, birth control is something a male can control if he always uses a condom. Same for sex practices.</p>
<p>BTW–I think all the concern about what other adults are doing sexually (legally) is weird.</p>
<p>Deleted…</p>
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<p>I think voting has a lot to do with these issues. The old men of the SCOTUS set the out of bounds. It is up to the states to color within the lines. State voters elect their representatives. So, as is happening in Texas and, candidly across the nation, severe restictions that have the practical result of limiting access to abortion are being adopted by the legislatures.</p>
<p>I see this not as an indication that anyone believes “men” should be making the decsions, rather that the majority of voters are making these decisions for all women within the state.</p>
<p>I was stunned when I read the Q&A with the author. First, I was surprised by the amount of time she allegedly spent “researching” this article.( Personally, when I read it, I assumed she spent a weekend or two–at most–on campus. )</p>
<p>Second, in the Q&A the author claims that the sex scene in college(s) has changed a lot in the 12 years since she finished college. There are obvious problems with this claim: (a) can you draw such sweeping conclusions based on ONE campus–and one which has unusual demographics-- and (b) did the author attend UPenn as an undergrad? If not, how does she support the conclusion that the sex scene at UPenn has changed in the last 12 years? </p>
<p>There are no baseline statistics in this article. Maybe the hook up culture is more prevalent now than it was a decade ago, but IMO, there is no evidence–one way or the other–that this is the case. Ok–40% of Penn seniors were virgins or had had one sexual partner --where did this stat come from? What was the percentage in 2003? In 2001 (when the author graduated from college)? In 1993? What percentage of female students had had five or more sexual partners in each of those years? If you don’t know any of this info–or at least tell it to the reader–how can you conclude things have changed? </p>
<p>IMO, this is sloppy and sensationalist reporting, and the NY Times should be ashamed of itself. </p>
<p>I wonder what effect, if any, this will have on applications to Penn this coming year?</p>
<p>07, I deleted my post because I don’t want to get the thread shut down for politics. Just FYI.</p>
<p>A couple of years ago I asked my OB/GYN about this hook up stuff and she rolled her eyes and concurred with some of the posters here that it wasn’t a huge trend that was taking over…</p>
<p>Do any of your kids’ schools have “XYZ College Crushes” or something similar on Facebook? Some of the comments are more profane in nature (so-and-so is hot, I’d like to do him / her) but others reveal very, sweet, touching crushes (to the girl in the back row in Physics 101, the way you look when you take notes makes me want to be with you) that frankly, don’t sound all that different from the crushes on my day. I don’t think human nature has changed all that much. Some people will always be players and most people will want more of a relationship.</p>
<p>I have to stop and ask myself whether I really had a very good knowledge of the “sex scene” at my college when I was there. My guess is that college students may not be very reliable observers of the overall sex scene even at their own colleges while they are there.</p>
<p>That’s why we need stats. I am quite sure many studies are done on this matter. That you hate it doesn’t make it wrong. I would think our personal observation is far more anectodal than what someone observed spending 1 year on campus. It is kind of illogocal to call the article anectodal and cite our experience/observation.</p>
<p>The article’s author claims to have conducted
This is why it’s difficult for me to place much credence in it. There are approximately 4800 female undergrads at Penn. I don’t see why I should take the author’s word for it that the 60 she chose to interview are especially representative. The article is itself anecdotal; the author’s anecdotes are neither more nor less valid than the anecdotes reported here.</p>
<p>I agree with Hunt about reliability of observations and have no idea if those interviewed for the article are representative. I do know hook-ups (one night stands) happened when I was in college in the 70s and frequently were initiated by women. Young women didn’t usually talk about it because it did damage their reputations. One young woman, known to have had a significant number of one night stands, had to move to another area when she decided she was ready for a serious relationship and husband. We have less of a double standard these days, but it hasn’t disappeared. I had friends who waited to indulge in casual, fairly anonymous sex till they did the Eurail, hostel, European experience, especially with European men since there wasn’t going to be tale telling back home. Today with facebook, you probably couldn’t keep anything private or discreet.</p>
<p>I know from my mother and other older women that, for a variety of reasons, even when they were in college or young professional women, some women wanted to have casual sexual relationships. I have no idea what percentage of women feel this way, but I believe that some do. I think we all pretty much accept a percentage of men (maybe a small percentage?) feel this way.</p>
<p>adding: It seems to me some women want to experiment and have different experiences before they settle down. I have no idea how many women feel this way. It seems to be real for them in my experience and in my opinion.</p>
<p>Has the author done her homework and studied what to look for and who to interview? I assume she did. Simple google search turns up a lot about casual sex in college as I suspected. Here’s a few;</p>
<p>[Sex</a> and dating in college: Casual sex more prevalent on campus | WJLA.com](<a href=“http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/04/sex-and-dating-in-college-casual-sex-more-prevalent-on-campus-88182.html]Sex”>http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/04/sex-and-dating-in-college-casual-sex-more-prevalent-on-campus-88182.html)</p>
<p>[Uncoupling</a> the hookup culture - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/28/opinion/la-oe-laird-hookup-culture-20130528]Uncoupling”>Uncoupling the hookup culture)</p>
<p>[The</a> Casualties of `Casual’ Sex: A Qualitative Exploration of the Phenomenology of College Students’ Hookups](<a href=“http://spr.sagepub.com/content/19/5/639.abstract]The”>http://spr.sagepub.com/content/19/5/639.abstract)</p>
<p>If anyone has stats, it would be helpful. The only number we have so far is from mini’s link. It cited the study done by a Stanford prof; 75% had, on average 7 incidents for women 9 for men. All the articles seem to suggest numerous studies have been done. I do note it is roughly about the same for women and men. I would think the disparity was much greater in the old days.</p>
<p>Maybe this article will illuminate the writing process.</p>
<p>[Unhooked:</a> The new culture of casual sex - today > health - today > health > relationships - TODAY.com](<a href=“Unhooked: The new culture of casual sex”>Unhooked: The new culture of casual sex)</p>
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<p>And if talking to 60 and spending a year isn’t enough, here’s someone who talked to 1000 and spent 8 years, same conclusion.</p>
<p>[6</a> ways of looking at college hookup culture - The Week](<a href=“http://theweek.com/article/index/242137/6-ways-of-looking-at-college-hookup-culture]6”>6 ways of looking at college hookup culture | The Week)</p>
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<p>I think this varies based on campus culture. </p>
<p>While hookups were commonplace at my LAC, no one cared about your sex life or the lack thereof. If anything, being judgmental about others on that basis tended to not be looked upon too kindly…especially considering the emphasis on “enthusiastic consent” among many classmates.</p>