NYU Abu Dhabi

kameronsmith · February 23, 2012, 3:43am

Quite frankly, I care very little about traditional measures of professors and prestige. I care that, at the undergraduate level, professors are first and foremost good teachers. Very little of the material which you mentioned in their CV matters for that. I’ve already seen this at the HS level, where some of my best teachers just graduated college while former Ivy professors often taught dismally.

But I have a life to live. Honestly, you clearly have different priorities for an education (prestige, research, etc.) than me. I just want to have engaging teachers and interesting students in a good community. If it’s free, all the better.

Also, NYU has excellent grad schools and NYUAD students are guaranteed preferential treatment. I’m probably planning to go to law school and there are certainly worse places to end up than NYU.

As far as your issues regarding having enough professors, I think that’s a rather ridiculous plan. Do you think they’re somehow planning to have major requirements that are unfulfillable, thus leading to the majority of students not graduating?

Cardgames · February 23, 2012, 6:11am

@nrousep
I mentioned in one of my previous posts that one of the possible purposes of NYUAD is to market Abu Dhabi and NYU. I guess you somewhat agree with that point. Honestly, it could be a great idea. Dubai gets an unspeakable number of tourists every year. If Abu Dhabi could find a way to bring those tourists here, we could establish a strong tourism market.

I don’t really think researchers care for a global university. What they want is state-of-the-art facilities, funding, assistants, and whatnot. Well, I’m not a researcher, so I wouldn’t know.

I do think NYUAD is successful in a number of ways. Now, we need to see if those successes were worth the trouble. I would prefer educating my people over generating money or a reputation. However, as long as there is some benefit in the project, I’m satisfied.

Sickrate · February 24, 2012, 1:01am

I applied NYU Abu Dhabi RD and so far have not been invited to Candidate’s Day (today’s date is 2/24) …do I still stand a chance?

kameronsmith · February 24, 2012, 1:32am

I’m afraid at this point all invitations have been sent out. (This was confirmed with the admissions office.)

nrousep · February 24, 2012, 2:11pm

Abu Dhabi is aiming to be the cultural & intellectual capital of the Middle East . Since it has enough oil/money it is not on a commercial expansion spree. Guggenheim. Louvre. etc. I saw a full blown Picasso exhibition there once and they had carted all the HUGE canvases to AD!! NYUAD is part of this program though it had gone to Yale first

Dubai is struggling to become once again the commercial capital (DSF, Malls, Media City , Knowledge village (geared for professional ) , Jebel Ali Port, DPW, Hotels & Real Estate, etc) .

No other ME country has a plan like this excpet for Qatar - with Qatar Foundation - Though QF began before NYUAD & has Carnegie Mellon, Texas A&M, Georgetown Univ., it has not created a storm in CC & other places like NYUAD. Neither has the several US univ branches in UAE ( Rochester Inst of Tech, Michigan State, etc) or even Sorbonne ! if NYUAD is even being compared to HYP ( HYPE or not! ) - they certainly have done something right !

And like u said - its funding that will get the researchers. NYUAD has great labs coming up it seems & with the new campus, it just might be a hotbed of research by 2020 along with MAZDAR.

Its also money well invested too. most of kids who are on full Boat FA will get back as Grad students & do research here , teach in UAE & maybe even work in AD. It really is a smart move !

Students today seem to be aware that knowldge is not confined to old prestigious univs alone like it was once before the days of computers & the net. Good pay attracts good teachers & a Univ with deep pockets will ensure all the same facilities that any prestigious Univ provides. They also seem to be dumping prestige for more fun & excitement instead.

I would not compare NYUAD with Princeton or Harvard . NYUAD lacks the years of great reputation & prestige of these Univ. But i doubt if there will as large a difference in the education from NYUAD & Princeton. Some would prefer to NYUAD to Princeton & vice versa. There are some things that NYUAD kids will learn a lot better than Princeton & vice versa given their locations & constitutions. Besides Univ catch up - Oxford & Cambridge are hardly discussed here in CC and i am sure they were once far far bigger than HYP!

last ( Feb) CW’s results were out last night ! CONGRATS & All the best to all those who got into NYUAD. To those who did not - relax ! this is not the end of the world!

Cardgames · February 24, 2012, 3:11pm

We should go on a commercial expansion spree. Oil is probably going to run out by within this century (possibly much sooner). What Abu Dhabi needs is alternative sources of cash. Tourism is not a bad idea. I’m no fan of art, but if those museums convince tourists to come, there are worth the trouble. I don’t really think anybody cares about a “cultural and intellectual capital”. What does that even mean? We are going to cultivate great minds? That’s good and all, but let’s be more realistic and focus on securing the future. The current Middle East atmosphere needs a lot of work before it can house great minds. Actually, all the Middle Eastern scientists migrate to America because they don’t find the Middle Eastern environment conducive to their research.

I don’t understand your point regarding Dubai. Are you stating that those listed items are failures? The word “struggling” is confusing me, because you usually say positive things.

Qatar is like Abu Dhabi’s long lost twin brother. The tribes that reside in both countries, the dialect, the environment and the mentality are all identical. Anyway, you do know that Mich State closed doors, right? Also, I didn’t even know a Rochester Institute of Technology branch existed in this country- and I’m supposed to know educational related matters. I guess my ignorance says a lot about that branch’s success. Sorbonne is cool (I like it), but it’s only a modest success. It’s under enrolled, and its quality isn’t up to the original Sorbonne’s. NYUAD will, I hope, break this streak of unsuccessful attempts.

Don’t get me started on Masdar. That’s all.

The UAE has trouble retaining smart expats. The biggest problem is related to prejudice in the work force. Expats experience a great deal of difficulty when attempting to secure promotions, because of the nepotistic and whatever-the-adjective-of-cronyism-is nature of the workforce. This issue is most prominent in government related sectors, which control a large proportion of the… work sector (wrong word?). It might be a good idea on our side, but it isn’t on the kids’ side. Moreover, there’s no guarantee that the students will return to teach over here. You’re being a little optimistic, don’t you think? If we can’t keep those working minds, then we aren’t benefitting much. Finally, why are we even counting on others to do our job? We should have Emiratis learn to do research and teach college students. If we keep depending on foreigners, we’ll never be able to do anything.

I suppose. I’m proud to say that Youtube taught me more than any traditional teacher. Actually, it is kind of funny I got accepted to a top university because of Youtube’s sagacious guidance.

Congratulations to those who were invited.

kameronsmith · February 24, 2012, 4:45pm

I think being a cultural capital does bring other success. Paris, for example, is definitely a cultural and intellectual capital for Europe. While London is undoubtably the financial capital, Paris attracts significant tourism as well as aspiring artists and intellectuals. All of this certainly improves the economy. If Abu Dhabi can become the cultural capital of the Middle East (ie. be where you go to become an intellectual or artist), it will certainly help to diversify the economy in the future. NYU, having helped to build such a role for NYC (especially with Tisch), can likely help to transform Abu Dhabi into this.

I disagree with the insinuation that Abu Dhabi will be able to retain a significant portion of graduates either for research or work. Most likely, graduates will enter the global work force and end up working for multinationals, possibly in the Middle East. However, I do think that NYUAD will provide a significant benefit to the Emirati students who attend. By giving them both a stellar education and connections to future international leaders, it will certainly improve their futures. Indeed, this is likely tied to the future of Abu Dhabi: when trying to convince diversified corporations to relocate to Abu Dhabi, if Emirati have friends in those corporations it will certainly be quite helpful.

Of course, there’s no guarantee that they will find success in this: NYUAD could end up being a huge waste of money for Abu Dhabi. But for foreign students I think it’s clearly a great deal: a stellar education, with global educations, for essentially free.

Actually, only ED results came out. The majority of students at the Feb. CW were RD applicants, who won’t find out until April 1.

Cardgames · February 24, 2012, 5:12pm

@ kameronsmith

Dude, it’s too early to talk about artists and intellectuals coming to Abu Dhabi. We have more fundamental issues to deal with. I do agree with your point. I’ll admit that I didn’t really think the whole deal through. However, because you aren’t familiar with what actually goes on here, you don’t realize how quixotic that notion is (I actually chuckled a little bit). We have to start with the basics, which is providing an actual foundation for all of this to work. Believe me; we don’t have that foundation.

Networking, huh? Yeah, that’s something I haven’t given much thought. However, just how many Emiratis will actually network with these aspiring leaders? Not many (c’mon, you know how few Emiratis attend NYUAD). It isn’t cost effective, kameron. We might as well send our students to get MBA degrees at top tier universities. That’s where the hardcore networking happens. That would be much cheaper, too.

kameronsmith · February 24, 2012, 8:58pm

I’m sure my notions seem quite idealistic and they merely represent a hopeful dream. You’re right that I’m not aware of all the serious basic issues in Abu Dhabi which might well undermine those dreams. But if Abu Dhabi does manage to overcome those issues and become a real intellectual capital (this is a long-term hope, along the time-scale of oil running out), NYU could certainly play a role in that if it’s kept around.

Probably, at least in the short term. But if those dreams do materialize, I think NYU would be an excellent asset. Still, I agree that currently NYU is really benefiting foreign students and costing Abu Dhabi more than it delivers.

nrousep · February 26, 2012, 10:22pm

@cardgames - “Actually, all the Middle Eastern scientists migrate to America because they don’t find the Middle Eastern environment conducive to their research”

maybe this is why your leaders have set up NYUAD so u can have this environment conducive to research here ! Bring a bit of America here, finance the labs, research & scholars, make a dent in the world of research & … " Incidentally , there is some good work in neuroscience coming out of this place called NYUAD or something…"

There is no reason why some real contributions cannot come from NYUAD in the future after its grad programs & PhD are up . Right now the bulk of research comes from US & EU & to a small extend China , India. NYUAD & the clutch of other attempts like MAZDAR , etc could be the seeds that spawn good research. The ingredients are all there . It can work. There is nothing mystical about good research output. Get some fertile minds to huddle up, fund their research & u have it !!

Exactly how the US in its desperation during WW2, initiated the Manhattan project. Just lumped together several scientists on to one single project - a Bomb to stop the war . The fall out of the work includes nuclear medicine, power plants & of course nuclear bombs !

Even the NASA’s Moon project - i believe the computer of today is a direct result of this apart from contributions to several sectors from medicine, materials, transportation, communication, etc .

When u start something like that & fund it through, several spin offs can be expected thought difficult to predict initially . So lets wait with some optimism

Cardgames · February 27, 2012, 5:34am

@nrousep
I want to revise a statement a made previously. I didn’t mean that intellectual people in the Middle East migrate because of a dearth of research opportunities. The main reason is more related to freedom of thought and speech, and an active meritocracy. Unfortunately, the Middle East lacks those 2 components. If we want to grow sound minds, we’ll have to change the mechanisms of our society at a fundamental level.

Yes, NYUAD could contribute. However, I feel that you’re not exactly aware of how things actually are. I don’t know why you keep mentioning Masdar. It truly is a failure. I’m not saying this to be some kind of hipster. Masdar was a lot of hype with no substance. I just hope NYUAD doesn’t follow Masdar’s path. I’ll try to be optimistic, but I just can’t be as cheerful as you.

nrousep · February 27, 2012, 8:14pm

Masdar is a great project but went down because of the very same factors ( u mentioned) that drive your intellectuals out . Clearly those factors have been kept out of NYUAD by its constitution - giving NYU officials a free hand without having a whole hierarchy of state appointed heads above them. I think eventually people like u will get back & revive them all!

Dont forget that the reverse ( too much democracy ) also has its problems. Sometimes, a good monarchy is better than a democracy & the situation in Abu Dhabi i would say is pretty good ( save a few screwups ). In a democracy u normally have all kinds of thugs rule ! They learn the system & use it well. I would any day prefer a monarchy if they are nice people who understand the responsibility & deliver.

Hope this does not spin off a whole debate in here about democracy & hijack the NYUAD issue.

@Plotinus

I would echo the very same thoughts & concerns u have had i been in your place. You are now torn between wanting to put your son on a path u know ( or think) is better and having to put your foot down , going against his wishes / desires now. Its tough being a dad ! I wish i could help …

Cardgames · February 28, 2012, 10:30am

@nrousep
I wasn’t really thinking of a democracy. I was imagining a culture that’s more open to intellectual inquisitiveness and that rewards those who work, rather than those who are born into a specific group. I know that every country suffers some of these issues in one way or another, but I know that we worse than the almost every country. We need to fix that. I agree; there’s nothing wrong with the monarchy that we have.

Masdar is not a great project. I’m not going to open my yap because I know doing so will get me into trouble. Masdar’s problems aren’t related to bureaucracy or anything like that. If anything, Masdar needs someone to keep tabs on it. Well, you might think dictating NYUAD’s direction is a bad idea, but it’s our money, and at the end of the day, we have a right to make sure it’s going to a good cause. I’d totally revive the appointed hierarchy, if it meant making sure we aren’t getting the short end of the stick. Is there a problem with that?

As I mentioned before, we have many more problems than you think. It’s just that these problems are kept secret. After seeing just a small fraction of the problems we have, I know that the situation isn’t all roses and whatnot. However, this thread isn’t about that. On the other hand, the fate of NYUAD depends completely upon what happens in Abu Dhabi. If the government of Abu Dhabi doesn’t believe NYUAD is of any use (I’m not saying it’s useless, but the problem is cost efficiency), why would it continue funding NYUAD? If the government experiences problems, NYUAD will also be in for turmoil. Moreover, what is to make sure NYUAD doesn’t follow its predecessors (like Mich State, a huge chunk of Dubai academic city, the under enrolled Sorbonne, etc.) that failed to deliver? Before someone tells me that NYUAD’s position is different, yes, it’s different. I’m just stating a number of hypotheses. In short, NYUAD is a risk to attend. I’m confident that every applicant already knows that, but I’m trying to emphasize just how precarious the situation is. There are so many ways by which NYUAD can get screwed. To every applicant, consider both the risks and the benefits. Also, if this dude from Abu Dhabi thinks attending NYUAD risky, it truly is risky. Do you want to have a degree from a university that could be discontinued in 15 years (I’m not making a prediction here; I’m emphasizing a point)?

kameronsmith · February 28, 2012, 11:08am

At that point I’d just say it was from NYU (the degrees are issued from NYU) and be fine.

Cardgames · February 28, 2012, 11:12am

@kameronsmith

Lol, I guess so.

How do the NYUAD degrees work exactly? I know they are pretty much like the normal NYU degrees, but I’d like to know whether there is something different about them.

Also, it could be 4 years rather than 15. I was just making up a number.

kameronsmith · February 28, 2012, 11:18am

I’m not entirely sure how they work (and I doubt anyone really is yet, since none have been granted). Most likely, it’s just a normal NYU BA or BS maybe with an extra note about “Abu Dhabi honors”

nrousep · March 1, 2012, 12:14am

If NYUAD fails , NYU will have need to look after all the stranded kids . That explains why NYU took a $50 mil advance!! ( cost of shipping kids to NYU NY perhaps??) + i am sure they have worked out comfortable settlements in the contract. So no one need be worried on that count… BUt hey ! its a great idea and it has taken off a 100 times better than Sorborne or Knowledge village & other projects. To be even compared to HYP in just its first year of existence itself is a feat in itself …

gloriousambition · March 4, 2012, 11:11pm

I just came back from the candidate weekend. And I don’t think NYUAD is going to fail

Cardgames · March 5, 2012, 7:08am

@gloriousambition
You have to look at NYUAD from the funders’ perspective, not an applicant’s. The applicants will not see or deal with financing the place and whatever. I’m pretty sure you found the experience to be interesting and unique-and that’s good. Try answering this question: what is NYUAD contributing to the citizens of Abu Dhabi or to Abu Dhabi in general? It’s a rather difficult question to answer, given the very low Emirati enrolment rate, the lack of interest in the liberal arts in the UAE (I know NYUAD does engineering, but it isn’t the top choice even among colleges in Abu Dhabi), the really high cost-per-student rate, the oversaturation of colleges in Abu Dhabi, etc. If you were in Abu Dhabi government’s shoes, what would you do?

@nrousep
Yeah, I don’t think the students would be left hanging. Let’s just hope that nothing bad happens, and if something does happen, the transition is smooth.

wildspirit · March 11, 2012, 8:43am

hi everyone,

( this message was supposed to appear on pg 9. Rly sorry)
I personally do not think that NYUAD doesn’t do anything wrong as per gays. Yes, it is unfair to many of these people but nobody is forcing them to get admitted there. Am i not correct?
I am going to apply to Abu Dhabi in next couple of month and i perfectly understand as to what i am going for and i am absolutely fine with it. I am not gay nor i have anything against those who are. As per my mind set i believe that we as intelligent beings are capable of deciding for our own selves and developing our personalities in whatever direction we desire. Would it be such a problem for a gay if he went to AD.
Abu Dhabi’s financial aid is excellent and i do think that it is worth for anybody to try to join it. Sometimes life circumstances demand personal sacrifices in order to succeed.
I am not Arab but i am Ukrainian and i have lived in India for past 4 years. I met lots of Muslims many of whom come from UAE itself. What i can say is that most of them won’t get bothered with your personal life and they expect you to do the same thing towards theirs as well. After all they are very acceptable people in terms of internationalism. Basically neutral. They do may not like our culture but yet they won’t do anything against it.
Why to try to change ideology of UAE at all. Why can’t we just develop with mutual respect with each other. These are the questions for which we should find the answers.

NYU Abu Dhabi

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