NYU Honors Grad Wants to Know What Parents Think of Current Tuition

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi Parents, </p>

<p>I see this site is geared towards incoming students and parents. I thought some of you might be interested in hearing from people who had completed the long journey of college. </p>

<p>You know, I remember the frenzy of college admission essays, SAT test, APs, extracurricular activities, and the general pressure to go right from high school into college. I was admitted to NYU and graduated from their prestigious film program in 3.5 years with honors. </p>

<p>But when I began to look for work both in my own field of film, and in other fields like finance, I discovered that my Bachelor’s Degree was not important to almost any of the employers or staffing agencies I worked with. They all encouraged me to put my degree at the bottom of my resume. And I found myself working alongside people younger than me with less debt and less education, both in film and in Accounting (which is where I worked for a couple of years when I’d had enough of the film business).</p>

<p>You know, education is a very emotional issue for people. I can’t think of any other investment where people will save thousands of dollars for their children and then give that money to an institution without rigorously inspecting the value of the product they are paying for. </p>

<p>I am 32, but know people in their 20s with anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000 in debt, making less than $30,000 a year. Their diplomas are neatly framed on their walls, but was it really worth all that time, money, and effort? I know people believe you need an education to get ahead, but my experience is that is an old model of thinking. It may have been true when my parents were in college, back in the 1970s. But schools do not realistically prepare most young people for what is necessary to build a career or successfully market themselves or their skills. </p>

<p>I’ve met people who majored in Biology, Business, and Economics struggling in low paying jobs, unsure exactly what they got from their time in college. Sure, it’s a great time and you make some great friends. You might take an interesting class or two. But when you realize that each class in a private school can cost from $4,000 to $6,000, doesn’t anybody wonder what is actually being taught and how relevant that is to your child’s future?</p>

<p>Or is it more important to “get a degree” just because that is what we have all been taught. </p>

<p>I felt strongly enough about this subject to write an entire book on it. This book focuses on Film School, because that is where I went. I earned a Bachelor’s while also completing the film requirements. But the heart of the book calls into question the idea of paying this much money for ANY kind of an education given the actual value of a Bachelors in the marketplace. If you actually spend time looking for work, versus believing that college grads have an easier time, you will discover it’s not what it used to be. </p>

<p>I recommend Marty Nemko’s website [Career</a> Advice, Education Advice, Life Advice by Marty Nemko](<a href=“http://www.martynemko.com%5DCareer”>http://www.martynemko.com). This guy is a Career Counselor and he writes for US News and World Report. I am not affiliated with him in any way and don’t make any money off of this. He is someone who has spent 20 years dealing with the aftermath of people who are deeply in debt with a degree they can’t use trying to find some way to start their career. </p>

<p>Anyway, given the current economy I believe this is a subject worth discussing. You may be sinking your child’s nest egg, which could see their retirement, into something that simply isn’t worth it. The Student Loan companies will eagerly go into business with you. It’s worth examining deeper. And remember, this is coming from a hard working grad of a very well known university. It’s a very different world than it was 20 years ago, and our thinking about education should reflect that.</p>

<p>I’d love to know what you think.</p>

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<p>The notion that a bachelor’s degree is a ticket to success in life and therefore worth the expense was true for previous generations when blue collar workers watched educated people get ahead in life. What happened over the past 40 years is that many, many more people got their college education and entered the workplace, thus lowering the value of a college degree. Thus a graduate or professional degree is now seen as the bare minimum to get ahead. Who knows where it will end. there are many ironies in this situation such as the attractiveness of technical training in a culture now shorthanded of such workers. In my town in CT, plumbers can make more than public school teachers with PhD degrees! Yet, there are always stories of graduates landing a job that develops into a very lucrative and rewarding career. I think as a society we really don’t want to look at this because we would realize how much smoke and mirrors and marketing by colleges is invloved. I think any institution that accepts any federal money should be required to post graduation rates,# of people working in thier field and years to retirement of student debt. This should be required of graduate and professional schools as well. Higher education has been given a free ride and it is time for that to stop.</p>

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<p>My daughter is feeling this way right now; she’s a theatre major, has worked professionally in the field when she was younger, and is starting to think college is a waste of time. She’d rather do a conservatory program at night while auditioning during the day. She would have no debt in either situation but is really questioning the whole “you must go to college” concept.</p>

<p>I’d be interested in more responses to this thread.</p>

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<p>Are we comparing NYU vs not going to college at all? Is that really the choice facing most people? Maybe in film/theater, but I suspect for most people thats not the real choice. </p>

<p>Its go to work straight after high school vs comm college. Or comm college vs 4 yr state school. Or four year state school vs four year private school (with whatever level of aid) </p>

<p>all these are different comparisons. The financial cost benefit is going to depend on the field you are looking at (thats not all that college is about, IMO, but thats what these kinds of discussions tend to turn into) </p>

<p>I am surprised that for financial positions it would be considered unadvisable to mention a college degree, unless these are the kinds of financial positions few college grads usually apply for, which you are interested in only as a bridge to film. </p>

<p>I don’t know much about either film or theater. I could certainly imagine that the strategy of just doing tryouts would be a reasonable path to becoming an actor. But what happens if you can’t make it as an actor, or decide its not worth the difficulty, and decide to become a HS theater teacher instead? At that point you will need a college degree. There is something to be said for the flexibility you will have from a degree.</p>

<p>Also while ten percent unemployment has certainly impacted the prospects for new college grads, from all I can gather, things have been quite hard for people with no college.</p>

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<p>“You might take an interesting class or two. But when you realize that each class in a private school can cost from $4,000 to $6,000, doesn’t anybody wonder what is actually being taught and how relevant that is to your child’s future?”</p>

<p>If, after 8 semesters, you have not taken more than one or two interesting classes, than either you have gone to the wrong school, majored in the wrong field, been bizarre in your choice of classes, or you are a ■■■■■. </p>

<p>I don’t know about you, but in looking at colleges with my daughter we are looking closely at what fields are being taught, and how they relate to her career plans. For her intended major we looked not only at the fields, but at the details of how they are taught, the school’s philosophy, etc. In ancient times when I went to college, before taking a course, I thought about how it related to either my career plans, or to my broader educational goals and interests. I also checked official and unofficial course reviews, the grapevine etc. </p>

<p>What courses did you take at NYU that did not teach what you thought they would teach? If after the first year of taking courses that disappointed you, why didn’t you change your approach to what to take.</p>

<p>If you wanted a guaranteed job on graduation, you should have gone ROTC. You’d have saved that nest egg, too. I suppose that would mean defering the theater plans, but if you are serious about business/finance a stint as an officer would be most useful.</p>

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<p>“In my town in CT, plumbers can make more than public school teachers with PhD degrees!”</p>

<p>Of course you don’t actually need a PhD to become a public school teacher. I know some esp in the humanities, who teach in public high schools with a PhD, but I think those are people who love the field, and don’t actually want to DO plumbing. </p>

<p>Of course they also get the summer off, so maybe they could work on plumbing part of the year?</p>

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<p>you said you worked in accounting. When I was young, a GOOD accounting job was not possible to get without at least the credits for a CPA, or at least an accounting or finance major (or at least minor) either undergrad or grad. </p>

<p>I am wondering what kinds of accounting jobs you are talking about. If the kind you can get without a real background in fin or accting, then its not so surprising you are being told to hide your NYU degree.</p>

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<p>I am 32, but know people in their 20s with anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000 in debt, making less than $30,000 a year. Their diplomas are neatly framed on their walls, but was it really worth all that time, money, and effort?</p>

<p>It may have been worth the $30k in debt, but certainly not $60k-100k in debt.</p>

<p>Could you please post this over in the NYU forum. There are still many kids and parents that think that it’s ok to take on big debt for NYU, because they think they’ll all soon be making 6 figures.</p>

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<p>Brooklynborndad: Don’t get me started with the teacher comment: “Of course they also get summer off.”</p>

<p>As a high school teacher I spend a lot of unpaid summer time grading research papers (I teach a two-year class.), planning lessons for the new year, going to training and mentoring students working on a required IB project. I don’t get paid for any of it. Yes, I don’t have to get up at 4:50 every morning in the summer and work a straight 9-10 hours daily plus additional time during the weekends and a number of evening nights. For the last three months the required training I have been taking doesn’t allow me to return home until 8:30 pm three nights a week. Yes, today I was able to leave at 3:30, so I am home now.</p>

<p>Please don’t assume that teaching is an easy gig.</p>

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<p>I don’t think is the place to discuss the work habits of my DD’s teachers. I think you will agree that the degree of difficulty of teaching varies. Not everyone changes their lesson plans each year, as one example.</p>

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<p>I also have a kid who graduated from NYU. She has only been out for 11 months and so is younger than the OP. We feel that her college education has been worth every penny! To set the record straight, she is not personally in debt for it and so it is not being paid from her own earnings. We have debt to pay for it, however. </p>

<p>I don’t see college in the same way as you do though. We did not send our kids to college simply for job training and how much they might earn when they graduate. We sent them to get an education, as we and they value that, and for the experience itself which was really good, by the way. However, when speaking of careers, generally speaking, one has a better chance at many more careers with a college education than without one. My kid has a BFA in Drama (musical theater and acting) and is way more equipped now to work in her field than before she entered college. I am happy to say that she has supported herself from graduation day and is working in her field. She is not rich (she is only 21) but is engaged in enriching activities and making her way so far in her career, and we owe a LOT of that to NYU/Tisch. Oh, I should add that she will never hide her degree from NYU/Tisch on her resume!</p>

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<p>"I think any institution that accepts any federal money should be required to post graduation rates,# of people working in thier field and years to retirement of student debt. "</p>

<p>Have you actually had trouble finding graduation rates? Thats widely available. # of people working in their field is a fuzzy stat, as it depends on how you define the field - and of course some folks major in something fully expecting not to work in it - and is an Ivy League English major working on Wall Street really the equivalent of a civil engineer driving a taxi? As for years to pay off debt, again that will depend on many choices the graduate makes that the college has no control over. </p>

<p>It is quite possible to find out how typical grads in a given major do at a given school. ASK the students, esp the seniors. They know whats going on. If you didn’t do that, well thats your issue.</p>

<p>Of couse if you had asked kids in 2006 about the employment situation in 2010, they couldn’t have predicted this.</p>

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<p>Well, Seth, on further inquiry, I see you have written a book on this topic and thus the reason for this thread!</p>

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<p>LOL! google, as they say, is your friend.</p>

<p>Now would Seth be a famous author if he had NOT gone to NYU? Who’s to say?</p>

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<p>OP: I posted this thread sometime back but didn’t get much response because it seem no one cares and that is why institutes like Harvard, Stanford and Yale get away without posting their graduation placement.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/915765-tough-economic-times-were-made-even-tougher-higher-degree-graduates-specially-phd.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/915765-tough-economic-times-were-made-even-tougher-higher-degree-graduates-specially-phd.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>While the truth remain that cost of education in US have outpaced everything else in the world.</p>

<p>It is cheaper to attend Cambridge/Oxford in UK as an international student than attend Harvard, Stanford, or Yale as a US Citizen.</p>

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<p>I don’t know about Oxford, but from all I can gather, Harvard is MUCH more affordable for middle class families than NYU is. Its that whole “grants vs loans” thingie.</p>

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<p>^^^: Not for those who’ll have to be full pay.</p>

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<p>er, I said middle class.</p>

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<p>Middle-middle and lower middle class, to be more specific, is the group being referred.</p>

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<p>*As a high school teacher I spend a lot of unpaid summer time grading research papers (I teach a two-year class.), planning lessons for the new year, going to training and mentoring students working on a required IB project. I don’t get paid for any of it. Yes, I don’t have to get up at 4:50 every morning in the summer and work a straight 9-10 hours daily plus additional time during the weekends and a number of evening nights. For the last three months the required training I have been taking doesn’t allow me to return home until 8:30 pm three nights a week. Yes, today I was able to leave at 3:30, so I am home now.</p>

<p>Please don’t assume that teaching is an easy gig. *</p>

<p>Wow…you do a lot. :slight_smile: My three SILs are teachers, and they admit that they don’t do anything “school related” over the summer. One even takes on a summer job. Good for you!</p>