<p>Which is better: NYU Stein or SUNY Potsdam Crane for music ed majors? Which offers a better job placement rate?</p>
<p>I like NYU a LOT better… but thinking ahead, if Crane will give me a better edge in the job market, then I might rather go there.</p>
<p>Idk. Help :P?</p>
<p>Have you visited both schools? They’re so different just in terms of location that geography might help you make up your mind.</p>
<p>Crane is located in a remote, cold, windy location. NYU is located in a major urban, cold, windy location. NYC is eclectic. Potsdam is not. </p>
<p>NYU is a well known university throughout the nation. Crane is well known in NYS and New England. If you are going to stay in New York, Crane has plenty of alumni in high music-ed places in NYS who rabidly defend and support their alma mater. I am always amazed about how cliquey the Craneians are in the music-ed world.</p>
<p>Crane is cheap. NYU is expensive. As a music-ed teacher, your salary will probably start in the mid 40s. If you have to take out loans to afford NYU, well, that may be the deal-breaker. </p>
<p>Personally, if money were no object and the decision was only between those two schools, I’d go to NYU. I think I’d get a “bigger” education. But if money were an object, Crane would be the obvious choice.</p>
<p>If money is not a problem, i would agree that NYU would be the better choice. Both schools claim a 100% placement rate. NYC schools are full of a huge variety of music programs. At NYU you would have the opportunity to observe and learn from all these teachers and programs. Plus, you have all the schools on Long Island, New Jersey, Westchester county, even Connecticut, that will all be available to you. The Steinhardt music ed folks have ties with most of them, so placement for jobs is excellent. Good luck!</p>
<p>Assuming you are a NY resident, my advice is to go to Crane and save the NYU money for graduate school.</p>
<p>If location isn’t an issue and there isn’t someone at NYU that you specifically want to learn with, I don’t see why anyone would choose NYU over Crane. You won’t get a better music education at NYU than you will at Crane. You won’t get placed easier at NYU than Crane. I don’t know that I’ve ever visited a school district in NY that didn’t have a Crane grad on staff. I don’t know that I’ve ever met a k-12 music teacher from NYU. The difference in price borders on $140K that alone should stop you in your tracks.</p>
<p>Personally I think both SUNY Potsdam and Fredonia (as do most other state schools that don’t boast 40K campuses like IU) get short shrift here on CC’s Music Major forums, pretty much treated like any school not in some magazine’s top 50 or 100 choice in the rest of CC, while I see little if any evidence that you are better off at most any other schools in terms of your education. </p>
<p>Visit both, talk to prospective teachers, talk to students, the music ed staff, weigh the areas and the expense and decide.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with sagiter when money comes into play. </p>
<p>I would like to point out one other issue to consider regardless of where you go. My H and I have 50 years of experience between us teaching the arts in public schools, in five different states, NY included. Assuming you have a strong music education background, which you will get from either school, the most challenging part of teaching public school music is not in preparing your lessons, which you will learn in your degree program. It’s dealing effectively with the kids: discipline and class control. New teachers in any subject typically get placed into the schools that are hardest to staff, because teachers already in the district usually have rights to bid for the “more desirable” positions. So, in your first job, you will likely have a very challenging situation in terms of classroom management. These can be kids from very difficult home situations–homeless, chaotic family lives, poverty, no discipline in the home, no access to private lessons or instruments, no place to practice, parents on drugs, no English spoken in the home… At the same time, these teaching situations are often the most rewarding, with children who eventually become the most grateful and dedicated musicians, and you as a teacher have the opportunity to transform their lives. Another very challenging teaching situation, sometimes even more so, is the wealthy, privileged neighborhood with students and parents who are very knowledgeable with access to everything. Many of these students can be intimidating for new teachers, and their parents will often support their kids over the teacher. The kids can come across as thinking they know more than the teachers, and the principals at these schools are often “owned” by the parents of these kids, who are very vocal critics. Then there is everything in between. With either situation (and sometimes you will find both at your first job, because the music teacher can be assigned to more than one school), the inability to deal with kids and/or parents can cause you to quit or be fired in your first year. Try to find out what sorts of student teaching and pre-teaching experiences you will get wherever you go, and pick the one that will offer you the chance to work with and observe teachers who are successful with multiple situations. I know nothing at all about Crane or Fredonia, but for sure at NYU you will have these opportunities. You can be involved with the most exclusive, wealthy private schools like Dalton or Packer-Collegiate, exclusive performing arts public school programs, as well as the most challenging, poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods with no music budget, poor facilities and disillusioned teachers. I don’t know your instrument, but also try to get experience with multiple types of music programs. For voice, that would include traditional choir, show choir, musical theater, jazz choir, elementary school choir, and most importantly, master your piano accompaniment skills. For general music, that would include all grade levels, Orff, Dalcroze,Opera and musical theater studies. Guitar is handy, because some poor schools will literally have nothing available for you, so you’ll be playing your guitar and you and the kids will make home-made instruments. For instrumental that would include strings, concert band, marching band, jazz band, rock band… You can’t possibly do everything, but the more you can qualify yourself to do, the more likely you are to get a position, and succeed at it. </p>
<p>But if you are attempting to pay back big student loans on top of all this, the odds of success will be stacked against you.</p>
<p>Good luck, you have an exciting, rewarding and challenging career ahead of you.</p>
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<p>Well, here’s the thing: location, location, location. It’s not the music-ed education (which I agree, is fabulous at both Crane and Fredonia), but what is available to you outside of the music school. Just consider the concerts, productions, and other performances in NYC that you can attend on a daily basis. Plus of course, if you have other interests, a university like NYU will have many, many more classes for you to take. </p>
<p>Personally, I would prefer a city environment to a rural one, especially if I had interests in the arts. But, that’s just me.</p>
<p>Like I said “if location isn’t an issue”.</p>
<p>Sure, Sagiter! But I think it kind of has to be…</p>
<p>I’m definitely a city girl, I live in Boston, and I would definitely like to remain in an urban area. However, I really like Crane and I know several teachers there, so I’m hoping to maybe get in. But how bad is the weather/location, really? Is it simply TERRIBLE, or just maybe a little lonely?</p>
<p>To SRose, from a northern NY perspective:
If you are from Boston, you will not be surprised by the weather in Potsdam. It is cold and snowy in the winter (it is, after all, the northeast)! I’m sure you already have the appropriate outerwear! It seems that people sometimes get unduly worked up about weather. It is definitely a small town, especially compared to Boston, but kids I know who go there love it, make friends and find enough to do for 4 years. You mentioned you know several of the teachers, so remember how important one’s private teacher is during the undergrad years. I think the most difficult thing about Potsdam is that it is a long drive from the thruway/MA pike- but, also remember that many kids find a way to travel to colleges that are a bit out of the way. My D chose not to audition/apply there because, for her, it was too close to home (about 1.5 hrs away), and too many kids from her high school go there (Crane and/or the college). She was looking to make a bit of a “break-away”! Good luck with the process!</p>
<p>I am sitting here with my son and his girlfriend who both attend SUNY Potsdam. So the word is it will be very very cold and windy BUT there will be less snow than you get in Albany or Boston. Potsdam is actually shielded from the “wet” part of the weather.</p>
<p>Potsdam is not NYC but they say that there is always something to do. There are always concerts, there is always practicing, there are several colleges in the area, SUNY Canton, Clakson and St. Lawrence so there are always things going on. It’s not Greenwich Village.</p>
<p>We are from Canada’s Capital and my D goes to Crane. The weather is not all that bad, I have been in Boston during the winters and really the only thing you will find is that the snow stays around and doesn’t melt as fast. What worries me the most is that because there is no real public transit as such she has brought her car down and the highways are narrow and dark. For her to come home by bus was a 12 hour bus ride versus a 1 3/4 hour car ride. The people there are fantastic, both in town and at college. She has no regrets and finds the time flies by. As Sagiter said there is always something going on. If you get a chance go to their web site and look up the calendar of events, it is unreal. From a parents view it is great because we can still make it down for concerts and even Brunch on a Sunday morning but yet she has her own life that she has to manage.</p>
<p>This is my first time on forum. I am happy to hear a bit more about Crane & Fredonia as my daughter has applied to both of these as well as Queens College. My daughter is a good student 90’s, did well on SAT’s got accepted into all of the above. We are NYS residents and although she did not look into many privates, I feel good about what I have seen & heard & know about all three of these schools. We are fortunate that we live on Long Island & have NYC an hour away. Although there is so much more exposure to the arts being near/in a city I feel there is something to be said about the isolation while in school or maybe I should say “distraction” of having so much to do nearby. The way I feel is that my daughter can go see a concert or 2 on break or in the summer, or maybe attend one of these schools in the city or near a city for graduate school. I also know Buffalo is only 45 minutes away from Fredonia, and there are opportunities there. I was very touched by what Sopranomom said above in post about “the first teaching job”. Unfortunately cost is a consideration in these hard economic times & hopefully my daughter will become a wonderful music teacher no matter where she goes.</p>
<p>Baylee, we are also on Long Island and my son attends Crane. As I have said before they are very busy and you really very rarely miss the opportunities of the big city while attending. There are concerts and recitals almost every day of the week. Last week they had a concert by the Count Basie Orchestra along with available master classes. There is the Orchestra of Northern NY, they simulcast from Lincoln Center, faculty concerts every week, ensembles play 4-8 times a year and you will have your own evening stuff to deal with as well. My son is in Community Band on Tuesdays, a tuba euph group one night, brass quintet Thursday night and there is always practicing.</p>
<p>It might be harder and more boring for Potsdam students not attending Crane but for music students it seems incredibly full.</p>
<p>This is my first time writing too My son is a junior and is considering potsdam and fredonia. He plays alto sax. We have visited fredonia but not potsdam. can anyone tip me off to any serious issues, pro or con, about these music programs.</p>
<p>momofmusician, welcome. Here’s the most pertinent titled threads, and there are additional specific posts within other threads. If search this forum, use crane, potsdam and fredonia as separate keyword searchs, choose “search entire post” and the display results as posts option, you’ll find info a bit more buried. If you get lost, ask and I’ll be happy to point you in a few directions.</p>
<p>There’s a few active posters at Potsdam/Crane as well as Fredonia. There may also be some recent audition and visit info here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/850837-fall-cycle-2010-audition-experiences.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/850837-fall-cycle-2010-audition-experiences.html</a> and here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/558178-music-school-visits.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/558178-music-school-visits.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497360-crane-vs-fredonia.html?highlight=crane[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497360-crane-vs-fredonia.html?highlight=crane</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/594989-how-crane-out-state-students.html?highlight=crane[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/594989-how-crane-out-state-students.html?highlight=crane</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/303136-crane-school-music.html?highlight=crane[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/303136-crane-school-music.html?highlight=crane</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/672230-fredonia-addition-music-what-does-offer.html?highlight=Fredonia[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/672230-fredonia-addition-music-what-does-offer.html?highlight=Fredonia</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/651688-suny-fredonia-syracuse.html?highlight=Fredonia[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/651688-suny-fredonia-syracuse.html?highlight=Fredonia</a></p>
<p>My son will be a senior this fall and is planning on majoring in music education/performance. He is a string bass player and is considering Crane, and Fredonia. Does anyone have any information about the Bass teachers at these schools?</p>
<p>John Geggie is the String Bass prof at Crane. He is from Ottawa and fairly well known in Canada. He has a web site [The</a> John Geggie Homepage](<a href=“http://www3.sympatico.ca/johnd.geggie/]The”>http://www3.sympatico.ca/johnd.geggie/) .</p>
<p>According to my son (who is not a bass player), the bass students really like him.</p>