Obama and "The Audacity of Vanity", or - Who IS this guy?

Parent Cafe
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<p>No, that is not what I am saying. I want them to travel between November and December when they have actually won the election. </p>

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<p>I am a Hillary supporter, so at that time I did not really care what McCain was doing. </p>

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<p>So do you think he picked up any foreign policy experience on this trip?</p>

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<p>By whose accounts? The media were not permitted to attend these meetings, so how would we know if anything of substance was discussed? His media choir at this point is just writing whatever they want, and they have thrown objectivity out the door. Like Andrea Mitchell said, it was just fake news and photos.</p>

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<p>By the leaders’ own accounts.</p>

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<p>In which case, you should be equally chagrined by McCain’s trips abroad. He hasn’t yet gained the Presidency either.</p>

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<p>First of all, the newly elected president needs and deserves time to rest and attend to his or her personal life. Second, they have to assemble their cabinet, etc. Adding traveling all over the world to meet with foreign leaders to that list seems inefficient. </p>

<p>That said, I’m pretty sure that newly elected presidents spend some time abroad talking about policies, etc. with foreign leaders. After getting the nomination, candidates go abroad simply to introduce themselves to foreign leaders so that when they come as president the candidates and the foreign leaders are already somewhat familiar with one another before they talk actual policy. This is similar to how when you first meet someone you start off with casual small talk and move onto deeper and more personal subjects as you get to know each other.</p>

<p>Lastly, I think you underestimate how much work goes into transitioning from one presidency into another. Both Obama and McCain already have set up Whitehouse transitions teams.</p>

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<p>Do you even know the context of her remarks?</p>

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<p>Just a few of the issues discussed:</p>

<p>Obama, Maliki Agree On Iraq Withdrawal By 2010
[cbs5.com</a> - Obama, Maliki Agree On Iraq Withdrawal By 2010](<a href=“http://cbs5.com/national/barack.obama.iraq.2.775965.html]cbs5.com”>http://cbs5.com/national/barack.obama.iraq.2.775965.html)</p>

<p>independent.co.uk — Brown prepared the ground for a historic realignment in the “war on terror” by setting out a four-point plan for withdrawal of British troops from Iraq by the end of next year…It is clear Mr Brown is in agreement with Barack Obama on the need for military action in Afghanistan to take priority. Both appear to be working to a 16-month timetable.
[Digg</a> - British PM, Gordon Brown, Backs Obama Over ‘War on Terror.’](<a href=“http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/British_PM_Gordon_Brown_Backs_Obama_Over_War_on_Terror]Digg”>http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/British_PM_Gordon_Brown_Backs_Obama_Over_War_on_Terror)</p>

<p>Mideast peace talks, Iran’s nuclear ambitions and climate change were discussed Friday by French President Nicolas Sarkozy and U.S. Sen. Barack Obama in Paris.</p>

<p>“I want to say there’s a tremendous convergence of views,” Sarkozy said during a joint news conference through an interpreter. “(And) a tremendous sense of impatience or looking forward to the great American democracy choosing its president so that (the United States and Europe) can do things together … on climate change, on reforming world institutions, on peace in the world, on injecting more ethics into financial capitalism.”
[Obama</a>, Sarkozy discuss peace, war, climate - UPI.com](<a href=“Obama, Sarkozy discuss peace, war, climate - UPI.com”>Obama, Sarkozy discuss peace, war, climate - UPI.com)</p>

<p>BERLIN - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel discussed the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as climate and energy issues at Germany’s chancellery Thursday, part of a tour aimed at lifting the first-term senator’s international standing.</p>

<p>Their meeting featured “very open” and wide-ranging talks, Merkel spokesman Ulrich Wilhelm said in a statement issued after the hourlong session. Obama and Merkel also stressed the “great significance of close and friendly German-American relations,” he said.</p>

<p>Other topics included Pakistan, the Middle East peace process, the transatlantic economic partnership, the global economy and “the need for co-operation on the international level and in international organizations to solve important global questions,” Wilhelm said.
[Obama</a>, Merkel hold ‘vey open’ talks on Iraq and Afghanistan - Yahoo! Canada News](<a href=“http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080724/world/obama_germany_1]Obama”>http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080724/world/obama_germany_1)</p>

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Obama was there to listen and he had long, in-depth conversations with world leaders and in some cases opposition leaders in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Gaza, Germany, France, & the UK. He gave those leaders a chance to know him, and also to directly express their concerns to him… I can’t imagine a more productive “experience” than the face-to-face conversations he had. </p>

<p>The purpose of Obama’s trip was expressed clearly in the campaign buttons with Obama’s picture that were distributed in Germany and inscribed, Ich kann zuhören</p>

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<p>I’m sure Senator Obama did a lot of listening. Like Hillary Clinton suggested during her campaign - the presidency is not well suited for on-the-job training.</p>

<p>*In a clear swipe at Barack Obama, Sen. Hillary Clinton says the economic travails of the country are too important to be left to a candidate with little domestic policy experience.</p>

<p>“There is one job we can’t afford: on-the-job training for our next president,” Clinton told a crowd in Knoxville, IA today, according to excerpts obtained by the AP’s Clinton beat writer, Beth Fouhy. That could be the costliest job training in history."</p>

<p>“Every day spent learning the ropes is another day of rising costs, mounting deficits and growing anxiety for our families. And they cannot afford to keep waiting.”</p>

<p>Clinton does not use Obama’s name, but the actions by her campaign to make sure reporters noticed the speech today suggests that Obama’s experience is the prime target. It’s the first time, in fact, that Clinton has used a speech to directly challenge Obama’s credentials. Generally, Clinton says that “change” is “just a word without the strength and experience to make it happen.” Today, she elaborates: “It’s easy to make up a program to address every economic problem. But it’s hard to figure out how to pay for it.” *</p>

<p>See: [Marc</a> Ambinder (November 19, 2007) - Clinton, On Offense, Strikes At Obama’s “experience”](<a href=“http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/11/clinton_on_offense_strikes_at.php]Marc”>Clinton, On Offense, Strikes At Obama's "experience" - The Atlantic)</p>

<p>Another American visited Berlin in 1963 ( a Harvard grad as well) who also thought he could engage in direct negotiations with enemy states like Obama. This person nearly caused World War III. </p>

<p>I’d rather not go down that road again.</p>

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<p>If you spent 10 minutes listening to or reading any of the many press interviews with Obama you would see that he is far more informed and has clearly given more deep consideration to a myriad of issues than the other candidates. I would suggest, actually, that you check out the Face the Nation interview with Jack Reed and Chuck Hagel, and listen very closely to what Hagel (a Republican) says about Obama – as well as what he says about the way McCain’s current gutter tactics are hurting this country. </p>

<p>If McCain is all that great, why can’t he run an honorable campaign and discuss the issues rather than running false ads and going around impugning Obama’s patriotism because Obama disagrees with him on Iraq? </p>

<p>Meanwhile, I’d like to know why McCain needs a cheat sheet these days at his various appearances. He was reading off a crib sheet to remember the cost of milk at the grocery store; same thing in order to give a simple statement when he was with the Dalai Lama. I’m serious; he looks tired and he looks clueless all of the time.</p>

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<p>Yes! Especially since this is what he PROMISED to do! I believed him because I’d always thought he was an honorable guy, even when I disagreed with him. Now, he looks like an increasingly desperate man, freaked out to the point slinging mud and insults at his rival because he has nothing positive to say for himself or his ideas. … The contrast with Obama, who rarely even mentions McCain (let alone savage him), is striking.</p>

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<p>I haven"t read this whole thread but Obama seems to be the candidate of choice for young people and the future belongs to them. Nobody under the age of about 50 can relate to the other candidate, why inflict him on the next generation…</p>

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<p>For those interested:</p>

<p>[Details</a> missing from Obama’s Social Security plan - Yahoo! News](<a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080728/ap_on_el_pr/obama_social_security]Details”>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080728/ap_on_el_pr/obama_social_security)</p>

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<p>To be fair, McCain also has the same problem. The two campaigns are not providing any models that show that their economic plans will work. A lot of ideas look good in theory, but not feasible empirically. </p>

<p>I wish the media would spend more time evaluating their proposals instead of what they are currently reporting.</p>

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<p>“The two campaigns are not providing any models that show that their economic plans will work.”</p>

<p>SS is a sacred cow. It would be suicidal to talk in detail. The best they could do is promise to appoint a bi-partisan commission.</p>

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<p>“Obama was there to listen and he had long, in-depth conversations with world leaders…”</p>

<p>WOW I sit in the Nuclear Physics class for one day, and I can be the expert Nuclear Physicist. Amazing.</p>

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<p>Simba: Did Obama claim to be an expert? He has 300–THREE HUNDRED-- experts to advise him on foreign policy. Remember his being reminded that so many had served in the (Bill) Clinton administration? Is it a bad thing?</p>

<p>Oh, and he did not dodge any sniper fire anywhere on his trip.</p>

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<p>“Oh, and he did not dodge any sniper fire anywhere on his trip.”</p>

<p>Perhaps he was afraid of that for that hospital visit.</p>

<p>May be he did not claim to be expert, but many groupies are claiming that. He had this discussion with that and that discussion with this. So what? Yes he talked to this and that, what does it prove?</p>

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<p>It proves that his trip was useful, and even necessary. It does not prove that it made him an expert and no one is claiming it did, at least not on any CC thread I’ve seen.<br>
Furthermore, he’s not responsible for what groupies say about him. I hope that Hillary does not feel responsible for what some of her more stupid supporters say about her or anybody else.</p>

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<p>^It proves that his trip was totally a political stunt. Had he been serious about any of the issues at hand he’d have been in the various nations long before he started running for president.</p>

<p>Yes, calmom - I listen carefully to what Senator Obama says. Before and after he tries to amend his various positions. ;)</p>

<p>Obama lacks a number of things that he cannot improve by November:</p>

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<li><p>Experience. Obama has little or no credible executive experience. McCain has some, but not enough in my opinion as well. Because McCain has more experience, I find him preferable.</p></li>
<li><p>Commitment to the United States. Obama’s commitment is questionable, given his lack of selfless work to the United States. This lack is compounded negatively (my opinion) by his long term associations with Pastor Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. This does not mean McCain is perfect by a longshot, but substantially preferable given his long and credible service to the United States.</p></li>
<li><p>Failure to be independent. So far, in his 3-some years in the US Senate, Obama’s voting record is extremely liberal. He does not buck his party to any significant degree and consequently seems too much an ideologue to me. His latest efforts to appeal to the middle are transparent and look the product of political expediency.</p></li>
<li><p>Failure to be forthcoming. Obama seems to be developing a talent for Clintonesque double speak. He clearly appears to state a position, but then waffles into attorney-like nuance to cover exposed areas. I don’t like this at all. Bill Clinton fooled no one and neither does Obama.</p></li>
<li><p>Can he protect the United States? I have substantial doubts he would respond correctly to threats to the US. This is the most important job of the president and I doubt Obama would pull the trigger in time to defend the United States. Further, it appears that to stave off charges of weakness, Obama would become too aggressive and needlessly risk war. No doubt foreign leaders already have formed an opinion about Obama, and I fear that they would find him weak, thus encouraging national adventurism a la the Cuban Missile Crisis. President Kennedy also thought he could engage in direct negotiations with enemy states and at least in part nearly caused a nuclear war.</p></li>
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<p>Where is Colin Powell??? :(</p>

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<p>I don’t understand your reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis. I think you must have it confused with the Bay of Pigs. The Cuban Missile Crisis was started when the Soviets placed their missiles in Cuba; the result of the negotiations between the Kennedy administration and the Soviets were that the missiles were removed. Do you think Kennedy should have ignored the missiles, or let them remain? What else should JFK have allowed the USSR to get away with?</p>

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<p>Where is Colin Powell? Advising Obama. Note the date.</p>

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[FOXNews.com</a> - Colin Powell Advises Barack Obama on Foreign Policy - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum](<a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,280115,00.html]FOXNews.com”>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,280115,00.html)</p>

<p>More recently:

<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/us/politics/18advisers.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/us/politics/18advisers.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>You’re using the CMC as an example of Kennedy’s failure? He’s to be blamed for the fact that the Soviets place missiles in Cuba – and then engaged in the cleverest of negotiations and sticking up for the US that he was able to get the Soviets to stand down? You think this was a failure? What drugs are you on? That was shrewd strength at its best when the US was in real danger. You should read real history and stop imbibing whatever swill you’re reading that suggests that Dems are responsible for all evil in the world.</p>

<p>[Cuban</a> Missile Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis]Cuban”>Cuban Missile Crisis - Wikipedia)</p>

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<p>Oh, you mean the guy who disgraced himself by bolstering the false push for the Iraq War at the UN and then got pushed out of the Administration that he irresponsibly backed up? The Colin Powell that is an advisor to Obama now?</p>

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<p>McCentury’s views change in a given hour…</p>