<p>^LOL Hindoo!</p>
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<p>Not me, buddy! I’m scared to death of guns, and I’m certain if I had one I’d find a way to inadvertently hurt or kill myself with it. … Years ago, when I was single and living alone in Southern California, I used to carry a salad fork in my purse to defend myself if necessary. What criminal wouldn’t be intimidated by a wild-eyed, frizzy-haired woman, screaming profanities and waving a fork in his face?</p>
<p>Intparent - Still working my way through that post…</p>
<p>If John McCain finished last at any of the military academies, he would not be the “bottom of the barrel academically”, nor would he have achieved a poor education. Remember the type of student accepted at those schools. What does that say about all of the other college graduates who go to schools much lower rated than the academies (many of whom are CEO’s, surgeons, and every other impressive position imaginable)??</p>
<p>Sice you brought up McCain’s academic performance, what was Obama’s college GPA?</p>
<p>You’re killing me, Hindoo. (ROFL)</p>
<p>Well, so much for the “reparations” point to this thread. :)</p>
<p>Ever so often, even the best contenders need to go to their corner for a rest. This is just the between-rounds entertainment.</p>
<p>intparent:
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<p>Sure - the first thing that comes to mind when they think of John McCain is a character issue (sarcasm). If you’ll harshly judge a man tortured and broken after five years in a prison camp for changing and outgrowing his wife, what will you say to all of the other regular situations where people get divorced or have affairs? For me, the fact that McCain chose to remain in agony and let others leave before him speaks volumes. I would not venture to judge what went on in his bedroom after his return from being a prisoner of war.</p>
<p>I’ll tell you what a real character problem is - socializing with a known domestic terrorist.</p>
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<p>Let me see…no further terrorist events on our soil since 9-11 (versus the first WTC bombing, embassy attacks, and the USS Cole under Cllnton - and 9-11 right after he left office), a democracy in Iraq with positive military result trends…Let’s also note that many European countries are electing leaders who are more right-leaning. Despite what the American media has accomplished in getting the world to bash us, immitation is the sincerest form of flattery.</p>
<p>This is why I make the point that most people have no idea what is really going on. If you only expose yourself to left-leaning news sources which never give both sides of the story, you might as well not bother accessing the news at all.</p>
<p>As for regulations, you went off in a whole lot of different directions. I am not against all government intervention. Do I think I should have to pay for other people’s real estate folly? No, I don’t. Do I support in the FDA? Of course.</p>
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<p>Obama has only associated with Ayers in recent years, when he (Ayers) has been a respected educator, human rights advocate, and Distinguished Professor at one of America’s top universities. From what I understand, Obama and Ayers have mutual regard for one another in terms of their community work, but are not bosom buddies joined at the shoulder. I can’t get too worked up over Ayers. It’s been a long, long time since he was a menace to society. … </p>
<p>I’ve never been inclined to “vet” my friends–though I’m not a political figure, so it really doesn’t matter :). Eons ago, in the late '60s, my older sister was a student radical, involved in sit-down protests and briefly a member of the SDS. She never bombed anything and, fortunately, wasn’t arrested, but her views so upset our father–a WWII and Korean vet–that he threatened to stop paying her college tuition. (But he didn’t.)</p>
<p>My point is that my sister grew up. She became a responsible citizen and eventually a high-level government employee at a major air force base. Her husband of 30 years is a former air force colonel and fighter pilot during Vietnam, whose most fervent dream in 1972 was to shoot down Jane Fonda’s plane as she flew out of Hanoi. Both have since mellowed … and met in the middle. So, there you have it. A former left-wing whacko and right-wing nut-case, living happily and peacefully, heading-up their local no-kill humane society, teaching wood-carving classes, studying Italian. … My sister remains pretty liberal, a kind and decent person who wouldn’t harm a fly. My brother-in-law is a moderate who respects McCain but for his own reasons, supports Obama. He still wishes he’d shot down Hanoi Jane all those years ago. … That’s why I’ll cut Ayers some slack … and Obama as well.</p>
<p>^Well, you know you make a good point. I think, though, that Ayers was in a completely different category than your family members. </p>
<p>I am all for second chances and forgiveness, and I get how all of us eventually grow up. However, from what I have heard, Ayers did something really bad and avoided punishment. That’s a problem in and of itself. Domestic terrorism - that’s a huge crime. To socialize with someone like that, even to a moderate extent, is troubling in someone who could end up sitting in the oval office. I think prospective POTUSes should be held to a high standard. We have a whole nation from which to choose this one person. The rest of us can cut down the cherry tree and lie about it, if we must.</p>
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<p>That’s pretty good. Don’t be surprised if you see it pop up in another post under my screenname. :)</p>
<p>Um, SpideyGirl, WSJ = Wall Street Journal. Have you read it lately? It is likely the most conservative source of true news there is. And the Atlantic also provides a well balanced set of conservative and liberal viewpoints, and in far more depth than most other news sources. I hear Fox on occasion as well, but find it is short on hard facts and statistics that are taken in context, and long on blustery opinion, innuendo, and “convenient” sound bites and statistics taken out of the larger context.</p>
<p>McCain likely got into the Naval Academy because his father and grandfather were admirals (whereas I have heard that Obama did not even mark on his Harvard Law application that he is AA); I stand by the .005% ranking as a sign that McCain isn’t too bright. Didn’t say he isn’t tough, because he is. But not bright. I don’t know Baracks GPA, but he graduated 212 out of a class of 3,829 from Harvard Law (that is 95th percentile), and was elected president of Harvard Law Review, which is generally considered the most prestigious law review in the country. There is ample evidence that Obama is far brighter (or maybe just more curious and dedicated to learning new things, which is also a quality we desperately need in the White House now) than McCain is. And by the way, I sure don’t want the surgeon who graduated in the .005% operating on me no matter what school they attended, even Harvard. And all things considered, I would pick the surgeon who graduated near the top of their class at Harvard.</p>
<p>Notice I did not say that you should pay for other’s real estate follies. Increased regulation of the lending market is not the same thing.</p>
<p>Ah, so McCain “changed and outgrew” his wife. And their kids? Sorry, but I think the strongest evidence of a person’s character is shown in how they treat their family. All reports say he was actively courting the richer, “whole” Cindy while still married to his wife (who did not want a divorce). Bottom line, he did not keep the two most important promises any of us make in our lives - - in our marriage vows and to our children. Again, I agree that he was brave in captivity (I have read his book about it). But that is not the only measure of a man’s character. For someone who states that POTUS should be held to a higher standard, there are plenty of POWs who didnt throw their wives and kids over for another woman. And the Keating Five scandal also does not reflect well on him.</p>
<p>And lastly, Obama is not without a significant set of life experiences. They are different than McCain’s, and he has lived fewer years, but adding years doesnt automatically add wisdom. Obama worked for a financial publishing firm, was a community organizer in South Chicago (a pretty interesting job, read Dreams From My Father if you want more detail), been a civil rights lawyer, taught constitutional law (hooray! I am very excited to have a candidate who has actually read the document, and given some thought to what it means!) at University of Chicago (another tip that he is a bright guy, U of C is a smart cookie place), and was a 2 term state legislator. Obviously he is a US Senator now, serving on the committees of Foreign Relations; Veterans Affairs; Health, Education, Labor & Pensions; and Homeland Security. I also like that he has lived a life that in a lot of ways is a lot closer to the average Americans than McCains - - he was raised by a single parent, took out student loans for his education, and has lived something far closer to the life the rest of us live (Cindy McCains net worth is estimated at something over $10 million - - again, I have nothing against the rich, but the idea that Obama somehow is an elitist when the McCains prefer to take their private jet everywhere, and even Johns tax return showed that he paid $136,000 to household help last year - - ignoring Cindys expenditures - - is ridiculous). And Obama has the experience of a few years spent abroad, which can only help in our increasingly interdependent world.</p>
<p>Not to worry, Hindoo. My guns have only been used on grouse (and that grouse has a heck of a lot better chance of escaping than the chicken in the grocery store!) and skeet.</p>
<p>Regarding reading material, I think that it is pretty obvious what a person is accessing and absorbing based on their opinions and beliefs.</p>
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<p>So many assumptions….The fact is, you have no idea how or why McCain got into the naval academy. Since he performed well as a soldier, and as a US Senator, one would think he had at least the minimum qualifications to be admitted. Apparently, the Naval Academy chose wisely. </p>
<p>You “have heard” about Obama’s HLS application???</p>
<p>You believe that people who don’t perform academically in college are “not bright”? Have you any willingness to do even the slightest amount of research on brilliant, accomplished people throughout history who did not get high marks in school? </p>
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<p>Obama is certainly a brilliant man. McCain is as well. Why is it that liberals need to completely denigrate the opponent in order to feel OK about their vote? It really is OK to vote on the issues. It is common sense that John McCain has a very impressive background – you don’t need to make up assumptions and generalizations in order to choose the other candidate. About Obama’s intelligence, a lot of people have a problem with a number of his decisions and associations, so to say that he is “smarter” than McCain is a little ridiculous. Of course he is smarter to you, as you are more comfortable with his story. People supporting McCain are more comfortable with his story.</p>
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<p>Actually, you obviously don’t know it, but you would want the best surgeon to operate on you. I’m quite sure of it. The one who has mastery of the procedure and talent with the knife, whether he graduated #1 or last in his class. Each end of the spectrum can carry the title “Dr.”, and I have never heard a surgeon talk about where he graduated in his class after he starts practicing. </p>
<p>In general, I have found that the subset of the population most obsessed with college name, GPA and class standing, years and years after graduation, is the same group most likely to have been disappointed with their own real-world achievements after a brilliant academic career. I am not saying this about you specifically – I don’t know anything about you. In general, though, I just don’t see people with significant achievements talking about or focusing on things like an undergrad GPA. This is because real world achievement and accomplishment is entirely more relevant and compelling. Fortunately, in addition to a great education, McCain is overflowing with real world accomplishments and experience.</p>
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<p>Well, I haven’t read the National Enquirer lately, but who John McCain courted and when is way beyond my scope of interests. To me, it is again common sense that when a guy went through what he endured, it would be likely he would return a changed man. Judging someone like that is way beyond ridiculous – you are really reaching for things here.</p>
<p>“My accident is well recorded. I had 23 operations, I am five inches shorter than I used to be and I was in hospital for six months. It was just awful, but it wasn’t the reason for my divorce. ‘My marriage ended because John McCain didn’t want to be 40, he wanted to be 25. You know that happens…it just does.’ …Friends confirm she has remained friends with McCain and backed him in all his campaigns.”</p>
<p>Here is the link for the above quote from the self-described “talk left” publication. The article includes lots of smearing remarks, which you may find interesting, from ant-McCain folks who purport to know more that John or Carol McCain about what went on in their marriage. Of course, that is only because it suits them politically.
[John</a> McCain’s First Wife Issues: Will Women Voters Turn Away? - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime](<a href=“Light a Candle for Melanie and Open Thread - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime”>John McCain's First Wife Issues: Will Women Voters Turn Away? - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime)</p>
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<p>Yep – I’d prefer a guy who has not cheated on his wife, or even divorced his wife. All things being equal, looking at the strengths and weaknesses of my only two choices, McCain is the better guy for the job. As for the Keating situation, he was absolved of any wrongdoing. The only people still beating that dead horse are doing so for political reasons only, and are ignoring justice in the process. If you are glad that Obama studied the Constitution, perhaps you will find that type of thinking troubling.</p>
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<p>Obama’s experiences are impressive but pedestrian compared to McCain’s. We all know people who are community organizers – it’s a great thing to do. So is being in the state senate, or perhaps the local school board. 146 days in the Senate versus 20+ years, managing thousands in the military versus a handful of local workers? Seriously – I’d respect your position more if you just admitted that Obama is sorely inexperienced for the POTUS job in this day and age, yet you like his thinking and who he is and you want to vote for him anyway.</p>
<p>I would absolutely trust my sister who graduated top of her class from UCB as an eye doctor with my eye care. She is quite brilliant. Would I trust her to be POTUS, oh heavens NO!</p>
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<p>You must be psychic, spidey! I denigrate McCain because it gives me a euphoric high to do so. :)</p>
<p>Seriously, there’s been some pretty gleeful Obama-bashing here, as well.
How fun would CC be if we were all civil and in total agreement? Borrrrrrrring. I personally enjoy people spewing venom over my opinions and my candidate, so I can feel righteously indignant. :D</p>
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<p>I almost choked and spewed water all over my keyboard over that one spidey. I couldn’t agree more with your analysis, and yet…Whenever the topic of AA comes up, it is the proud conservatives of CC who are often quickest and most vociferous in their conviction that the grades and test scores of some minority applicants tells all that needs to be told about their intellectual capabilities, thereby proving them completely unfit for college admission. John McCain is “brilliant”, even though there’s no apparent academic benchmark by which that my be substantiated. But xyz minority applicant is intellectually inferior solely on the basis of such benchmarks. Got it.;)</p>
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<p>$800 billion is a whole lot of money for sure…the loss of life is tragic. Nothing compared to the cost of a single act (9/11). If we have to spend $800 billion dollars every 7 years to prevent another terrorist related then it is money well spent… You can’t place a price tag on the lives lost during 9/11 or the aftermath.</p>
<p>[The</a> Cost of September 11](<a href=“http://www.iags.org/costof911.html]The”>The Cost of September 11)
[CCC</a> - The Economic Costs of 9/11](<a href=“http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/aug02/homeland.asp]CCC”>http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/aug02/homeland.asp)</p>
<p>But pmrlcomm, how do we know that invading Iraq is what prevented another 9/11-style attack? If I’d had my way, we’d have continued relentlessly in pursuit of Osama bin Laden (catch him “dead or alive” as Bush said 7 years ago). I feel we were sidetracked by Iraq, squandered billions and billions in $$, lost 4,135 precious American lives, butchered untold thousands of Iraqi civilians, and never found WMD. But we did get Saddam, which was a good thing–but I really would have preferred to see bin Laden hanging at the end of that rope.</p>
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<p>“Got it” means that was my point? Because I am a “proud conservative”, yet your summary bears no resemblance to my opinions on the topic of AA’s and college admission. Look back on my post history. I’ve had at least one debate on this very topic. In addition to disproving your theory as it relates to me specifically, as one of the more noisy conservatives here on CC, your generalization about the opinion of all conservatives on this topic has also been quashed.</p>
<p>Negative expectations are not good. :(</p>
<p>“… as one of the more noisy conservatives here on CC…” :D</p>