obama or McCain

bz2010 · June 24, 2008, 2:20pm

Lionhead - wow. I was trying to return to a civil discussion. Chill.

I do try to avoid statements like these (along w/ some of the other insulting comments} included in your last post.

Apparently, you sure took quite a lot of offense at my “brilliant” comment. Sorry I called you brilliant. I will most certainly refrain from doing so in the future.

Actually, my comment was directed at your * statement<a href=“unlike%20your%20comments%20toward%20%5Bi%5D%20me%5B/i%5D”>/i</a>.

So I’ll be sure not to call any of your future statements “brilliant” either.

I can’t think of one post I have ever made on CC directed at another poster rather than attempting to dispute assertions - and when I did make this sarcastic comment, I quickly apologized, and called myself out for hitting a low point. Didn’t think I needed further clarification from you - but what do I know, I have to “keep trying” for “remotely intelligent”. <sigh></sigh>

If you want to discuss the qualities of the various candidates, I’ll be happy to enter that debate w/ you - I thought that’s what this thread was about.

pmrlcomm · June 24, 2008, 2:32pm

That was in direct reference to Gore.

The part that is missing in global warming is “man”. The day they can put a cork in the volcanoes and stop lightning from igniting forest fires we might be able to do something about global warming. There are forces at play with much greater climatic impact than man.

[Mars</a> Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says](<a href=“National Geographic”>National Geographic)

[Global</a> Warming “Very Likely” Caused by Humans, World Climate Experts Say](<a href=“National Geographic”>National Geographic)

Take your pick, a well respected organization, two points of view. No different than McCain or Obama. I won’t convince you and you won’t convince me.

Some other reading -

[There</a> IS a problem with global warming… it stopped in 1998 - Telegraph](<a href=“http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/04/09/do0907.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/09/ixworld.html]There”>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/04/09/do0907.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/09/ixworld.html)

My favorite one ==> [Obesity</a> contributes to global warming: study | Health | Reuters](<a href=“http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSL1572011320080515?sp=true]Obesity”>http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSL1572011320080515?sp=true) Unbelievable…

Georgia30720 · June 24, 2008, 2:31pm

I have been a registered Democrat for 20 years, but will probably go for McCain on this one. I was really hoping Clinton would get the nomination, because she would have gotten my vote this fall. Considering the state our country is in at the moment, I would feel more comfortable with someone who has some experience. I just don’t think being a brilliant public speaker (which he is) is enough to make you a good president.

All politicians lie, spin or whatever to get elected. You just have to decide if what they are spinning about matters to you. And I still am having trouble getting over him denying he knew about the rhetoric coming out of that church, which I find racist. His campaigners do seem to be the ones bringing up his race more often as an issue, and while he positions himself as an African-American candidate, people (and Obama) need to remember the man is also half white.

And while I am not one of those who believes he is, was or ever has been Muslim, I can tell that I do know of people who are absolutely convinced he is a secret radical who will reveal his true colors once he is elected. And I know others who believe…no joke…that he is the anti-Christ.

cghen · June 24, 2008, 2:46pm

I’m curious, of the McCain supporters here, are there any who did not vote for Bush - Mr. 27% approval rating - in both 2000 and 2004?

I’m guessing that there aren’t too many, and frankly, if someone has voted for Bush twice (particularly in 2004), I’m going to have to take his or her arguments against Obama with a grain of salt.

Heck, the fact that McCain voted for Bush twice (or so he says), and that Obama did not, indicates that Obama can make more rational decisions. How did McCain’s experience help him with those votes?

pmrlcomm · June 24, 2008, 2:51pm

I voted for Bush twice. The 2nd time was while holding my nose. What alternative did the dems give to Bush? John Kerry. Please. I so wanted the dems to give me someone to vote for. In then end there was no choice. It actually shows me how inept the democratic party is. The fact that they couldn’t put out a decent candidate (didn’t even have to be good, just tolerable) against the most beatable president since Carter tells me that the party doesn’t have their act together. Look at the Obama-Clinton mess with the primaries. It was clear after Super Tuesday that Clinton had no chance but the voters continued to go out there and pretend it was possible. At some point reality has to set in…preferably before you look stupid. A candidate like Obama would have wiped the floor with Bush, I would have voted for him without question given the alternative. McCain, however, is not Bush.

bz2010 · June 24, 2008, 2:53pm

I did NOT vote for Bush in 2000 in the Primary.

I voted for McCain and have continued to assert that he was/is the better candidate.

I FIRMLY believe that if McCain had been elected we would not be in the situation we’re in now.

And I also believe that only McCain will have observed the mistakes Bush has made with a truly discernable eye & that is why he is UNIQUELY qualified to correct those mistakes.

TerpDad · June 24, 2008, 3:01pm

If you keep throwing out Bush"s approval ratings of 29%. I’ll just counter with a democratic controlled congress approval rating of 11%. I guess that means McCain will win by 18% using that logic!

mapesy · June 24, 2008, 3:03pm

pmrlcomm, I was responding to this:

The overwhelming consensus of the scientific community is that global warming is real and very likely caused by human activity. You can’t say the global warming theory has been debunked until a majority of scientists support that conclusion.

cghen · June 24, 2008, 3:03pm

In your view, how do McCain’s policies differ from Bush’s policies? Obviously they’re different people, but as I see it, McCain largely supports Bush’s platform which has proved quite harmful over the past seven years.

pmrlcomm · June 24, 2008, 3:06pm

I can throw out article after article, scientist after scientist that say differently. As I said, we won’t agree. I’m fine with that.

Hondu · June 24, 2008, 3:14pm

After McCain’s supporters read the following flip flops how can you not see he is no principled candidate but simply Darwin reincarnated.

<ul>
<li>McCain supported the drilling moratorium; now hes against it.
<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...061602148.html[/url]”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...061602148.html</a></li>
<li>McCain strongly opposes a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.
[McCain’s</a> Offshore Drilling Position A Flip From Three Weeks Ago - Politics on The Huffington Post](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost…_n_107872.html%5DMcCain’s”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost…_n_107872.html)</li>
<li>McCain thought Bushs warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15781.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15781.html</a></li>
<li>McCain defended privatizing Social Security. Now he says hes against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15863.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15863.html</a></li>
<li>McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesnt.
[McCain</a> Flips On Abortion: Won’t Challenge Party On Rape, Incest Exceptions - Politics on The Huffington Post](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost…_n_101115.html%5DMcCain”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost…_n_101115.html)</li>
<li>McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15825.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15825.html</a></li>
<li>He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion,he called it one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15864.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15864.html</a></li>
<li>McCain said he would not impose a litmus test on any nominee. He used to promise the opposite.
<a href=“http://www.americablog.com/2008/06/n...on-judges.html[/url]”>http://www.americablog.com/2008/06/n...on-judges.html</a></li>
<li>McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administrations warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.
<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...052802967.html[/url]”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...052802967.html</a></li>
<li>McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.
<a href=“http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008...out-face-yucca[/url]”>http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008...out-face-yucca</a></li>
<li>McCain supported moving towards normalization of relations with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15617.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15617.html</a></li>
<li>McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15557.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15557.html</a></li>
<li>McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15564.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15564.html</a></li>
<li>He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Partys policy making. Now he believes the opposite.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15573.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15573.html</a></li>
<li>McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesnt.
[McCain’s</a> '97 Lobbyist Bill Would Cripple Current Campaign - Politics on The Huffington Post](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost…_n_102662.html%5DMcCain’s”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost…_n_102662.html)</li>
<li>He wanted political support from radical televangelists like John Hagee and Rod Parsley. Now he doesnt.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15633.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15633.html</a></li>
<li>McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesnt.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15699.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15699.html</a></li>
</ul>

*McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is aread my lips candidate, no new taxes, no matter what? referring to George H.W. Bushs 1988 pledge. No new taxes, McCain responded.Two weeks later, McCain said, Im not making a read my lips statement, in that I will not raise taxes.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/14761.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/14761.html</a>

<ul>
<li>McCain is both for and against a rogue state rollback as a focus of his foreign policy vision.
<a href=“http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra…-rewrites.html%5B/url%5D”>http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra…-rewrites.html</a></li>
<li>McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerrys Democratic ticket in 2004.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/14818.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/14818.html</a></li>
</ul>

*In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, wont commit to supporting a regulation bill hes co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15033.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15033.html</a>

<ul>
<li>McCain has changed his economic worldview on multiple occasions.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15337.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15337.html</a></li>
<li>McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15370.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15370.html</a></li>
<li>McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15358.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15358.html</a></li>
<li>McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off than they were before Bush took office.
<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/19/...nomy-bloomberg[/url]”>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/19/...nomy-bloomberg</a></li>
<li>McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.
[Think</a> Progress McCain Falsely Claims He Has ‘Never Asked For A Single Earmark Or Pork Barrel Project’ For His State](<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/06/mccain-earmark]Think”>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/06/mccain-earmark)</li>
<li>McCain believes his endorsement from radical televangelist John Hagee was both a good and bad idea.
[Think</a> Progress McCain Flip-Flops In 30 Seconds: Hagee Endorsement A ‘Mistake,’ But ‘I’m Glad To Have’ It](<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/hagee-flip-flop]Think”>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/hagee-flip-flop)</li>
</ul>

*McCains first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldnt be rewarded for actingirresponsibly.His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15176.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/15176.html</a>

<ul>
<li>McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal.
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/us...in&oref=slogin[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/us...in&oref=slogin</a></li>
<li>In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.
[TIME:</a> Has McCain Flip-Flopped On Torture? - Politics on The Huffington Post](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>TIME: Has McCain Flip-Flopped On Torture? | HuffPost Latest News)</li>
<li>McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treatys behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
<a href=“http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...2to-gop-voters[/url]”>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...2to-gop-voters</a></li>
<li>McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants kids who graduate from high school. Now hes against it.
<a href=“http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...2to-gop-voters[/url]”>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...2to-gop-voters</a></li>
<li>On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own legislation.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/14447.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com…ves/14447.html</a></li>
</ul>

*In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receivingfeedback on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9658.html[/url]”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9658.html</a>

<ul>
<li>McCain said before the war in Iraq, We will win this conflict. We will win it easily. Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was probably going to be long and hard and tough.
<a href=“http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/b...lip_flo[/url]”>http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/b...lip_flo</a> pping</li>
</ul>

*McCain said he was the greatest critic of Rumsfelds failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy asa mission accomplished. In March 2004, he said, Im confident were on the right course.In December 2005, he said, Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.
<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/18/...reatest-critic[/url]”>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/18/...reatest-critic</a>

<ul>
<li>McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade [Media</a> Matters - Despite McCain’s many hedges, Borger asserted that “[n]o one would accuse McCain of equivocating on anything”](<a href=“http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310003]Media”>http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310003) to saying the exact opposite.[Think</a> Progress McCain Flip-Flops, Supports Immediate Reversal of Roe v. Wade](<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/19/mccain-abortion]Think”>http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/19/mccain-abortion)</li>
<li>McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldnt be allowed.
<a href=“http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...urrentPage=all[/url]”>http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...urrentPage=all</a></li>
<li>McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as an agent of intolerance in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans deserved the 9/11 attacks.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/6988.html[/url]”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/6988.html</a></li>
<li>McCain used to oppose Bushs tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/6731.html[/url]”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/6731.html</a></li>
<li>On a related note, he said 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were too tilted to the wealthy. By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and insisted he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/us...in.html?ref=us[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/us...in.html?ref=us</a></li>
</ul>

*In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending dirty money to help finance Bushs presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
[ABC</a> News: Gearing Up for '08? McCain Befriends Old Enemies](<a href=“Gearing Up for '08? McCain Befriends Old Enemies - ABC News”>Gearing Up for '08? McCain Befriends Old Enemies - ABC News)

<ul>
<li>McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.
<a href=“http://www.nysun.com/national/campai...t-mccain/36949[/url]”>http://www.nysun.com/national/campai...t-mccain/36949</a></li>
<li>McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.
<a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/2007011...he_fa[/url]”>http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/2007011...he_fa</a> r_right</li>
<li>McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/8313.html[/url]”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/8313.html</a></li>
<li>McCain was anti-ethanol. Now hes pro-ethanol.
[MTP</a> Transcript for Nov. 12 - Meet the Press, online at MSNBC - MSNBC.com](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15637887]MTP”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15637887)</li>
<li>McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
[Media</a> Matters - Despite McCain’s many hedges, Borger asserted that “[n]o one would accuse McCain of equivocating on anything”](<a href=“http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310003]Media”>http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310003)</li>
<li>McCain decided in2000 that he didnt want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he would taint the image of theStraight Talk Express. Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.
[Think</a> Progress In Shift To Right, McCain Embraces Henry Kissinger](<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/19/mccain-kissinger]Think”>http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/19/mccain-kissinger)</li>
<li>McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and acorrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.
[Think</a> Progress In Shift To Right, McCain Embraces Henry Kissinger](<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/19/mccain-kissinger]Think”>http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/19/mccain-kissinger)</li>
<li>McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture, and then caved to White House demands.
<a href=“Arc of history, still bending | Washington Monthly…_03/008343.php%5B/url%5D”>Arc of history, still bending | Washington Monthly…_03/008343.php</a></li>
<li>McCain gave up on his signature policy issue, campaign-finance reform, and wont back the same provision he sponsored just a couple of years ago.
<a href=“http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/8066.html[/url]”>http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/8066.html</a></li>
<li>And now hes both for and against overturning Roe v. Wade.
[Think</a> Progress McCain Flip-Flops, Supports Immediate Reversal of Roe v. Wade](<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/19/mccain-abortion]Think”>http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/19/mccain-abortion)</li>
<li>McCain voted against the Everglades Restoration bill but now <a href=“http://www.tampabay.com/news/politic...icle611347.ece[/url]”>http://www.tampabay.com/news/politic...icle611347.ece</a> "claims he only did it because of all the <a href=“http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion...edit_0610.html[/url]”>http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion...edit_0610.html</a> water projects attached to it and really supports restoring the Everglades. His National Finance Co-Chair, <a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn…-2005Feb3.html%5B/url%5D”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn…-2005Feb3.html</a></li>
</ul>

TerpDad · June 24, 2008, 3:14pm

Theory, likely, majority, doesn’t equate to definitely! The science is just not there, too many variables to come to an absolute! So , the question is do we make bad expensive public policy decisions or caustiously make decisions that we all can agree upon that favor a greener planet!

collegemom16 · June 24, 2008, 3:19pm

I encourage you all to research the Glass-Steagall Act, and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999. No one is talking about this and everyone should be.

TerpDad · June 24, 2008, 3:18pm

Obama present!

milkandsugar · June 24, 2008, 3:26pm

Hondu, I couldn’t have said it any better. TY
Georgia30720, no one is looking at Obama as a white man.

Hindoo · June 24, 2008, 3:28pm

I understand that Obama sometimes voted “present” when he saw the merits of a bill, but felt that it was flawed and needed work.

TerpDad · June 24, 2008, 3:33pm

I would say it’s not just the merits of the bill that needs more work or closer scrutiny but Obama who needs more merit and more experience! America votes present and seeks the more experienced candidate this time around!

pmrlcomm · June 24, 2008, 3:36pm

Hondu, I thought I had no life… lol

I would like to see the record of flip-flopping for all congressmen who have been in office that long. I’m sure it is extensive. Obama’s won’t be nearly as long because he hasn’t been there long enough. To be fair why don’t you pull out John Kerry’s or better yet, Teddy Kennedy’s?

tega · June 24, 2008, 3:36pm

I thought it was a fact that humans were causing global warming until I watched a show on PBS (thank god for PBS) a couple of months ago on global warming. There are some support for human caused global warming, but there are also a lot of support for the other camp. They looked at the weather patterns over the last couple of 100 years, and they concluded that we have had a lot of extreme weather patterns at times when the population of the earth was very small, so small that they couldn’t have contributed to the extreme weather.

I have read about the ice age in the 70’s, which turned out to be a false alarm.

Now, I support green living because I think sustainable development is economically good for the world, and it is a healthy way of living.

bz2010 · June 24, 2008, 3:41pm

Hondu - the first link I clicked on:

[Media</a> Matters - Despite McCain’s many hedges, Borger asserted that “[n]o one would accuse McCain of equivocating on anything”](<a href=“http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310003]Media”>http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310003)

came out in 2006 and pretty well rationalized McCain’s positions.
Can’t see how you think this supports your case that McCain is a flipper.

And I do want to make one point that to now come out in favor of reversing the Bush tax cuts would be the equivalent of supporting a tax increase - something that McCain would NEVER do.

And keep in mind that sometimes JSM has had to take positions other than what he really wants due to the PORK projects attached to the bill.

And I’ll give credit to JSM for TAKING A STAND on important isssues - even if that means adjusting your point of view later as more info comes out. That’s ten times better than voting “present” or saying what you’d do * after the fact * such as Obama has done.

McCain hs worked hard over many years to DO the work of government - what has Obama ever actually DONE??

obama or McCain

CONNECT WITH US