<p>“I’d be interested to know just how long Obama would last at the Naval Academy.”</p>
<p>Well, this is just silly. Two people lived different lives, and we can’t know if either would have excelled at the other’s challenges. It doesn’t make sense to judge them according to trials they never faced. Do you wonder if McCain would have graduated at the top of his Harvard Law class? That’s at least as relevant to his ability to make good presidential decisions as his athletic prowess 50 years ago.</p>
<p>“which is more than about 20% of each class can say. Surviving and “getting thru” is a phenomenal accomplishment”</p>
<p>I have a lot of respect for the service academies, but I don’t think focusing on his Academy career is a very compelling way to illustrate McCain’s merits. If 80% of those who enroll as freshmen graduate, then that is a higher graduation rate than the University of Illinois, and there were 893 midshipmen in 1958 who met the challenge better than McCain (not to mention those who’ve graduated in the top 99% of the class every year since then). Any distinction held by tens of thousands of other people is, by definition, not good evidence that someone ought to be president.</p>
<p>Midshipmen MUST graduate in four years - can you say that about the University of Illinois?</p>
<p>And don’t forget, EVERYONE else at the Service Academies are top top notch - not like your average university where there is quite a lot of disparity between the performers.</p>
<p>It’s a pressure cooker which demands HONOR, COURAGE & COMMITMENT as well as Mental, Moral & Physical developement.</p>
<p>How many other schools begin with swearing an oath to defend the Constitution? And tell their students that they must NEVER lie, cheat or steal or associate with anyone who does?</p>
<p>These values are deeply woven into the character of John McCain. It’s EVERYTHING he stands for.</p>
<p>And is as relevant today as the day he was inducted.</p>
You do understand that, outside of a few skeletal facts, everything in your post is your opinion only? Yes, he graduated from the USNA, served as a pilot, was a POW, retired after 20 years, and has spent his entire working life in the public sector. Those are facts. </p>
<p>Fact: McCain is a politician running for a political office. Fact: He’s been a politician longer than he was in the military. Fact: He has a long track record as a politician. Incidental fact: McCain is 71 years old (would be 72 on assuming the office) with a poor health record (permanent physical disabilities and melanoma). Fact: He has stated he doesn’t understand economics as well as he should. He confuses Sunnis and Shi’ites. What are our two most pressing problems at the national level? The economy and conflict in the Middle East involving Sunnis and Shi’ites. Conjecture, based on evidence: Of the two major-party (presumptive) nominees for president, McCain is the more likely to continue the failed policies of the current admministration. Personal opinion: McCain’s military background is a drawback. In order to extricate us from the quagmire in Iraq and negotiate the other troubled waters of the world and especially the Middle East, our future president will need to demonstrate exceptional diplomatic skills. When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail. McCain is a hammer.</p>
I think I do, probably as well if not better than most civilians. My S’s best friend from HS graduated from the Academy a few years ago with a 4.0. Brilliant kid but not what I’d call a “hard-charging patriot,” whatever that is. He got pilot. Then he got jets. </p>
<p>My nephew graduated from the USAFA a few years ago. Very good student, great kid, good pilot. He didn’t get pilot (wasn’t heartbroken, though, as some are). Currently serving in intel. </p>
<p>I think I know a fair bit about being a naval aviator, too. Spent a lot of time around my brother when he was one (fighter pilot and LSO) for eight years. He served under McCain, in fact, in the R.A.G. at Jax in the late '70s.</p>
<p>m’sm - you say everything in my post is my opinion only - that’s not even true, then you go on to fill your post w/ conjecture.</p>
<p>To suggest that McCain is “only” a hammer is a fallacy - I would suggest that he is a “hammer” when we are in need of a hammer, and at no other time. He alone will have the discernment as to whether a hammer is the correct instrument. </p>
<p>And I would further suggest that sometimes you need a “hammer” - sometimes a “shoe” just won’t do the trick.</p>
<p>“EVERYONE else at the Service Academies are top top notch - not like your average university where there is quite a lot of disparity between the performers.”</p>
<p>An 80% four-year graduation rate puts the academy in company with schools like Columbia and Dartmouth, which aren’t exactly your average university, and have hand-selected, “top notch” student bodies. The academy may well be a pressure cooker, but that graduation rate doesn’t provide any evidence.</p>
<p>“How many other schools begin with swearing an oath to defend the Constitution? And tell their students that they must NEVER lie, cheat or steal or associate with anyone who does?”</p>
<p>Probably all the service academies, which together have (a rough estimate) perhaps 100,000 living graduates. A group of honorable officers and gentlemen/ladies, no doubt. But how, again, does membership in a group that large provide evidence that someone ought to be president? Especially if the academy itself ranked you among the very worst? I really think you’ll make better mileage focusing on McCain’s other achievements.</p>
<p>First, Obama would have never past the drug test to get into the academy.</p>
<p>Second, I think Obama’s diplomatic skills are self evident. He has an uncanny ability to change his position right before your eyes. I guess that’s why people believe him to be magical. I heard he performs another trick. He can make your money disappear with the wave of a pen!</p>
<p>So, m’sm, what does your brother, who served under McCain have to say about his command?</p>
<p>Sorry, but just knowing someone who knew someone who went to the academy doesn’t necessarily give you insight about the daily sacrifices these kids make - all the times that they’ve lost touch with friends or girlfriends b/c they are so isolated & have no time for anything but studying. The drive that’s instilled in them to be the best, and the inner strength & integrity upon which they must draw just to graduate. It’s a very very special environment.</p>
<p>btw - Oliver North was guilty of nothing but being loyal to a fault toward President Reagan & his administration. That is all.</p>
<p>With the exception of the abuse of cocaine and whatever else Obama did along those lines of behavior (which would probably be disqualifying), his chances of success at a military academy would probably be pretty good I’d think.</p>
<p>He’s clearly smart and seems athletic, but those are only some of the qualities needed.</p>
<p>He’s also very disciplined, and good at upholding lots of non-academic obligations while maintaining academic success. Now that I think about it, he also shows a willingness to sacrifice time with his loved ones in order to achieve his goals. And he is very eager to take an oath to uphold the Constitution. :)</p>
<p>I know someone in that exact situation. wonder if it’s the same woman. In any case, I’ve known scores of Ivy law grads who chose not to clerk. Hundreds, even. It’s the rarity of those clerkships that make them worth a $50,000 signing bonus nowadays. In any case, I’m not sure why you’re so sensitive. It seems very clear that Senator Obama always anticipated running for office – a chosen path which is in no way incompatible with desiring to do the public’s work. it is not an insult to believe that the Senator had grand ambitions. I salute him for that. Really.</p>
<p>“scores of Ivy law grads who chose not to clerk.”</p>
<p>Oh, absolutely. But not the president of the Harvard Law review! (Or, with extremely rare exceptions, any of the top officeholders like Articles Editor, Notes Editor, etc.)</p>
<p>I’m not fighting the idea that Obama was ambitious. I’m just stressing that I think his story shows that he actually gave a damn, in addition to his ambition. YOU don’t think that’s incompatible with ambition…but a lot of people do.</p>
<p>I actually think it’s an admirable combination. I’m not going to vote for Senator Obama, but that doesn’t mean I don’t see much to admire in him.</p>
I’m sure you’ll understand if I prefer to keep any opinions on that to myself. I think I do understand what the life of a naval aviator entails–the larger context, if you will–what it takes to be a fighter pilot (in the interest of accuracy, McCain flew in an attack squadron), how they’re chosen, the weeding-out process. I don’t think it’s relevant to McCain’s seeking the office of president, as I’ve tried to make clear in all of my posts on the subject. Some people may feel it’s important; I don’t have a problem with that, as long as they examine the entire record in context objectively.</p>
<p>
That is not accurate. I knew my S’s friend very well for many years. His lifelong dream was to be a fighter pilot in the navy, and I put him in touch with both my brother and other pilots before his acceptance at the academy. I last saw him about two years ago right before he shipped off to Iraq. My S and DIL still stay in touch with him and his wife periodically.</p>
<p>I’ve known my nephew his entire life–before, during, and after his time at the USAFA.</p>
<p>As much as I hate to say it, this criticism seems disingenuous at best.</p>
<p>I do not believe anyone has ever suggested that any person ought to be president because of any single achievement in their lives.</p>
<p>I do not think that Senator Obama should become president because he is inspiring --though he is and that is a very good thing to have in a president; I’ve known a great many inspiring people that I do not think should ever be deciding the fate of the nation.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, it would be very good to have an inspiring president…like Senator Obama.</p>
<p>It sure would help to sort through all the vicious talking points if we could at least be honest with our remarks in an open forum like this.</p>