<p>Oh you short-sighted, self-righteous posters who think that criticism of our country is hate speech… Reflect on these inflammatory statements about “the war”:</p>
<p>Our soldiers “fight and kill with brutal solidarity.”</p>
<p>“We [Americans] shall surely be dragged down the long, dark, and shameful corridors of time reserved for those who possess power without compassion, might without morality, and strength without sight.”</p>
<p>“If America’s soul becomes totally poisoned, part of the autopsy must read [this war]. It can never be saved so long as it destroys the deepest hopes of men the world over.”</p>
<p>“This business of burning human beings, of filling our nation’s homes with orphans and widows, of injecting poisonous drugs of hate into the veins of peoples normally humane, of sending men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged, cannot be reconciled with wisdom, justice, and love. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.”</p>
<p>If that had been your pastor, you would have left the church, eh?</p>
<p>We now have a national holiday celebrating this pastor, the author of the angry words above.</p>
<p>You’re right, Mercymom. I did jump to unfair conclusions about you, and I want to openly apologize to you for doing so. In the interest of mutual disclosure, I want to correct your assumption that Obama is “my candidate”. He is only “my candidate” in so far as I much prefer him over Hillary Clinton. But John Edwards was my candidate, and now I’m still not sure who I’ll be voting for come the general election, so if your D has already made up her mind to vote for Obama, she’s way ahead of me. I only know that, at this point, I will not be voting for Billary. I’m taking a wait and see stance otherwise. It only seems like Obama is my candidate when it comes to these threads that bash him while ignoring all of Hillary’s crap. Also, believe it or not, my negative college experiences had absolutely no bearing on my response to your posts. On the whole, my college experience was very positive. I only wish I could do it over again, knowing now what I didn’t know then:). </p>
<p>Now, let me see—what else…</p>
<p>Oh, I did spend the most of my elementary school years in segregated schools, but after desegregation, my first best friend was a white transfer student with the reddest hair I’ve ever seen, and freckles all over, who could draw almost as well as I could. And I’ve had many close friends who were/are white ever since (hubby is white, for instance). My D’s best friend is a white girl from Philadelphia. Another is an Asian girl from NYC, yet another is a bi-racial girl like herself from Redding, PA. </p>
<p>Uhmmm…Gun control is something I’m still thinking over. Both sides have some compelling arguments, and I’ve yet to see how taking the availability of guns away from law abiding citizens is a good thing if criminals will still have ready access to them. But, I’m terribly dismayed and saddened by our nation’s seeming obsessing with both guns and violence. I’m conditionally pro-choice—the condidtions being late term abortions when the life of the mother is not at issue, and partial birth abortion (which fortunately, is not performed very often). I have no problem with either gay marriage or civil unions, though I can see how the concept offends the moral sensibilities of people who have been raised to believe that homosexuality is “an abomination.” Hey, I’m half of an interracial marriage that some people view in the same manner.:rolleyes:</p>
<p>Too late to edit, but I apologize to the CC posters for the comments. Most don’t feel that way, so I am sorry. But I did want to post those quotes to show that people of different generations can say things which, taken out of context, can sound harsh and un-American. Apologies for the anger overflow…</p>
<p>I think the real reason was anger at ABC last night for botching the debate so thoroughly… panning the crowd DURING the opening comments? A commercial break after the first few minutes? Trying to start a fight between the candidates with old news? Not talking about real issues? Grrr…</p>
<p>Thanks, poetsheart. I was afraid I was going to have to give up CC altogether (which might be good for my carpal tunnel syndrome actually). Some of what I have posted is in an effort to explain how southern conservatives think and live (like the deer incident) and react to things. There are times when I see how CCers interpret stuff and I wonder how they could ever think that way. Then I read the article about that “What’s wrong with Kansas” book (a book I never heard of) and it explains a lot of the mindset. So if another liberal appears to be trying to explain the dichotomy of thinking, then I post cause he’s doing a better job than I could. Well, obviously I don’t do a good job, so it’s best I don’t work for the state dept, eh?</p>
<p>D1’s Tanzanian friend wants her to go there this summer to visit the girl’s mom who still lives there (parents divorced). I’m more worried about ebola than any thing else. We’ll see if the trip comes off. There are several things that have changed my mind on gay marriage. Plus, I am now finding out there’s an element of economics to it. Like it’s going to cost a lot if there are all these new couples with benefits. So that might be an issue where republicans stoke the fire to avoid paying for all those partner benefits.</p>
<p>I know it probably seems to people here that I’m an arch conservative, but my family thinks I’m a leftist atheist radical. I feel like I have no political home so I read and listen to all points of view and try to do the best I can. Hopefully knowing you will help.</p>
<p>Bahahahahaha! That really is funny CC. You are a piece of work! “The only argument for why Obama should get the nomination is that he won both the popular vote and the delegate count! But that’s not a good reason because he didn’t have to face sniper fire in Bosnia!”</p>
<p>Mercymom: I’ve been to Tanzania twice. Ebola is really not an issue. That’s a different part of Africa, for one thing. There are tropical diseases that are an issue in Tanzania (malaria, yellow fever)—but, wow, what an opportunity for your daughter! I’d send mine in a heartbeat. Wonderful people. And your daughter would be an honored guest. [Health</a> Information for Tanzania | CDC Travelers’ Health](<a href=“http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/destinationTanzania.aspx]Health”>http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/destinationTanzania.aspx)</p>
<p>I also have to chuckle at the outrage over Stefanopolis being a moderator. Bill Moyers worked as a top aide to LBJ. Chris Matthews worked as a top aide for Tip O’Neill. It is nothing new for Demcrats & the mainstream media to have crossover of politicians into journalism. On the Republican side we have Tony Snow, but he worked as an opinion journalist rather than presenting himself as a newsman.</p>
<p>My parents lived in Tanzania for three years and I visited every summer. It’s a beautiful country and will be even more interesting for having a local guide. The most critical thing is to have something handy for tummy upsets. Never seemed to avoid them altogether. Otherwise get your shots, boil your water, avoid ice cubes - and you’ll be fine.</p>
<p>Marite, they spent their early careers as top political aides & then presented themselves as unbiased newsmen. They made high profile careers tearing down the rivals of their former bosses. Decades of attacks as compared to the one night of very valid questions posed by GS at the debates.</p>
<p>I won’t comment on Matthews and Moyers but I thought both Gibson and Stephanopoulos focused on trivial issues. I did think that there was an appearance of conflict of interest for GS, but I thought both were equally bad. It does not matter whether their questions were biased toward one or the other candidate; they were just bad and designed to get the two to go after each other rather than to help viewers understand their positions on issues better.
I disagree with you, obviously, about the “very valid questions.”</p>
<p>“I won’t comment on Matthews and Moyers but I thought both Gibson and Stephanopoulos focused on trivial issues.”</p>
<p>I am surprised at Obama apologists. For the last 20 or so debates Hillary was on the receiving end. If the guy who can gave good speeches and mix stuff up can’t handle real questions, he should pack up. </p>
<p>During elections all politician wear masks. Obama’s past associations, quotations give a small window to judge his character in absence of a real record. It is easy to mix and match words hat feel good, but don’t mean a thing.</p>
<p>SNL wouldn’t have made those skits if all the past debates were neutral.</p>
<p>There is hardly a dime’s worth of difference between the dems on “the issues”… People are looking for a leader they can trust as most of “the issues” will not be solved and continue to be election “issues” for eternity. So do you want a snob with a God complex or a tough broad with a long memory?</p>
<p>I agree that there is not a huge difference between Obama and Clinton on most issues. But it does not mean that the average TV viewer in PA knows what their position is on these issues, let alone what separates them.</p>
<p>Viewers did hear something new; that was about the importance of containing Iran and defending Israel. Clinton was particularly articulate and thorough here, though I believe she mostly expanded on the same idea as Obama.</p>
<p>I also believe, like you, that character is important. But did the debate reveal a “snob with a God complex” or a “broad with a long memory?” Clinton tried her best to suggest that her memory wasn’t what it should be regarding Tuzla (lest she be accused of fabrication). And Obama mostly said he was “a man of faith.” That does not sound like a God complex me.</p>
<p>Still doesn’ matter. She’s finished. Kaput. She just wants to inflict as much damage as she can now, in hopes that the Party will turn to her in 2012.</p>
<p>I really can’t believe that George Stephanopolis, a man who was Bill Clinton’s White House Press Secretary for years, felt he should be in the position of questioner/moderator for this debate. What’s more, it staggers me that no one seems to have questioned the wisdom of this beforehand. It doesn’t just “kinda look” like a conflict of interest, it smacks of a conflict of interest. And for him to take his talking points from Sean Hannity of all people:rolleyes:—well, that just floors me. </p>
<p>For a full half of the “debate” to center around whether or not the absence of an American Flag Lapel pin shows that Barack Obama is unpatriotic (I have yet to see Hillary Clinton wear a Flag pin on her suits, have you?), or whether Obama believes that Reverend Wright “loves America as much as he does” was just pathetic. It was definitely the lowest point yet in American television journalism. ABC has been receiving a lot of criticism over their handling of this “debate”, not just from Obama supporters, but from audiences in general—and well they should. A lot of people report that they turned off the debate after they had waited and waiting for the meat of the issues to come into the discussion. People really do want to know what the candidates are going to do about the collapsing economy, the housing crisis, the health care crisis, the war in Iraq, climate change, immigration, the trade imbalance, the budget deficit, education, job loss, etc. Years from now, no one is going to think the words of the President’s pastor was an issue of great importance. No one is going to care whether or not the President wears a flag lapel pain. No one is going to care whether or not the President lied about having come under sniper fire while she was First Lady. As important as it seems to niggle and pick and microscopically examine whether or not a candidates pastor is "un-American, and whether that calls into question the patriotism of the candidate himself, it will all amount to less than a hill of beans when gas is 4+ dollars a gallon, and truckers can’t afford to ship goods overland, or when scarcity causes food prices to spike even higher, or when large numbers of college graduates can’t find employment above that of coffee bar barista.</p>