Obama trying his hardest to lose rust belt vote

Parent Cafe
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<p>Speaking of original statements, there is a Charlie Rose segment from 2004 where Obama discusses this very point while Senator Elect. Listening to this interview from two years ago, it’s’ clear that he was speaking with compassion and not condescension. While he uses some of the same language, he explains his views.
You can find the segment through YouTube (entering Charlie Rose-Obama) , or through the Josh Marshall website, where I found it in an edited form which will show the relevant 3 minutes without having to wade through the whole Rose interview.</p>

<p>I don’t expect those who don’t like Obama to bother with this, but if you are inclined to vote for him and want a better picture of where he was coming from when he made these remarks, go to Josh Marshall’s website and see the clip.</p>

<p>lol-marite- I see we cross posted, here.</p>

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<p>I have watched it. </p>

<p>He did not specifically address religion in his answer to Charlie’s question in regards to how people vote. He talked about guns specifically. I don’t care why people want to hold guns. I think there should be some form of gun control to prevent criminals from getting access to them. </p>

<p>I agree with his position that the Republican party have been able recognize what is important to this group and they have been able to get their message across because a lot of the members of the Democratic party are so anti gun. </p>

<p>I am not a religious person, but my parents are, and they don’t vote for people because of religion.</p>

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<p>Can you say Jerry Falwell? James Dobson? Hagee?</p>

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<p>tega - I would caution you to consider the difference between religion and spirituality when it comes to assessing people’s experience and comment. I know a lot of ‘religious’ people who, when push comes to shove, are not able to find comfort within their own church. And I know a lot of people who do not belong to a church, who have an incredible sense of spirituality and faith in God. I do a lot of spiritual life review with people, and there can be huge disconnects in this area.</p>

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<p>“Since when is bringing attention to the fact that people are upset with the current administration an insult?”</p>

<p>You just don’t get it. The people who are getting insulted are not insulted 'cause they think Obama is saying they are upset with their financial situation or the current administration. They are insulted cause they think that Obama (and people like him) think they like guns, religion, etc, due to their economic problems.</p>

<p>It may be exactly how Marite has thought it out in terms of dynamics, but the guy with Bambi in the back of the pickup won’t interpret it that way. He’s going to think Obama is insulting his lifestyle; that’s how it’s going to come across to him. The feeling this guy will get is that Obama is saying “vote for me and I’ll make things so good for you that you won’t need to cling to your guns and your religion and hate immigrants any more - you’ll change for the better”. These people don’t do what they do cause they feel bad - they LIKE their lifestyle and are tired of liberals putting it down.</p>

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<p>ps - it’s not just lower middle class whites in rural Pa who like to hunt, remember Cheney at the Texas hunting club? Loving guns, etc is found at all economic levels within a culture. There are lots of people where I live where hunting season is really big deal, and it is just as big a deal for the doctors and lawyers as it is for the plumbers and policemen.</p>

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<p>^ Even Hillary says she has hunted. ;)</p>

<p>According to CNN, "Noting that many hunters and gun collectors want to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals, Clinton referred to her positive childhood experiences with firearms.</p>

<p>“As I told you, my dad taught me how to shoot behind our cottage,” she said. “I have gone hunting. I am not a hunter. But I have gone hunting.”</p>

<p>Clinton said she has hunted ducks."</p>

<p>John Kerry admitted he was a hunter and look what happened to him. :o</p>

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<p>Re Mercymom’s post: I agree that this is the way many people will interpret it (with a little help from Clinton?). Obama has admitted he phrased his thoughts poorly. And I also agree.</p>

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<p>1sokkermom - I just think it’s funny that she changes her tune whenever the context changes. Now she wants the gun owners to like her because she thinks it one-ups her from Obama. But several years ago she encouraged Americans to press congress to buck the gun lobby. I guess they’re not one of the lobbyists that contributed to her back then.</p>

<p>marite - agreed</p>

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<p>I read somewhere that Hillary openly opposed guns, was for gun control, as a run up to her campaign for the senate from NY because NYers are for gun control. I don’t think it has anything to do with who contributes to her. You could interpret her now as sucking up to Pa voters or she’s trying to seem more friendly to their lifestyle. Obama sounds like he’s trying to teach them how to live better.</p>

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<p>“Obama sounds like he’s trying to teach them how to live better.”</p>

<p>This is what I have been talking about. People who think that they know better than the other group, and they feel the need to tell them what is better for them. I think they know what is good for them, and they don’t need anyone telling them what is good for them.</p>

<p>I think the people living in south side Chicago will really need someone watching out for their best interest given their economic situation. </p>

<p>Obama changed his gun position when he was campaigning in Idaho. Politicians change their positions all the time.</p>

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<p><a href=“%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060188114-post50.html]#50[/url]”>quote</a> I read somewhere that Hillary openly opposed guns, was for gun control, as a run up to her campaign for the senate from NY because NYers are for gun control.

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<p>Hillary Clinton’s quotes and positions on gun control via [url=<a href=“http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm]OnTheIssues.org[/url”>Hillary Clinton on Gun Control]OnTheIssues.org[/url</a>]</p>

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<p>As Senators, the primary difference between Clinton and Obama on gun control is that Obama voted for the Vitter Amendment to the Disaster Personal Protection Recovery Act, which says the Federal government cannot take away someone’s firearm during a state of emergency. That bill passed 86-14 so voting for it wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of gun rights.</p>

<p>Purpose: To prohibit the confiscation of a firearm during an emergency or major disaster if the possession of such firearm is not prohibited under Federal or State law.</p>

<p>As for those on this board who feel gun control is a reasonable thing, I agree that there are necessary and positive forms of gun control. Background checks and that sort of thing are fine but the vast majority of crimes are committed with guns acquired extra-legally. If criminals are getting guns without going through the legally mandated background checks, making those background checks more rigorous or banning those who choose to go through the background checks from possessing conventional firearms won’t address the root issue. </p>

<p>Obama wanted to ban people from selling guns within 5 miles of schools and parks when he was in Illinois. First off, let’s say I’m an FFL holder who has passed numerous government checks and collects World War I rifles, I would have to move from where I live right now. Aside from this, people who live in high crime, urban areas, are often the victims of crime, so forcing gun stores, where they can acquire a modicum of protection, way out into the country 5 miles from any park or school, would be unfair and unwise. It would drive lots of gun stores and pawn shops out of business. And the effect on crime? Well the DOJ statistics from a few years ago showed that only 13.9% of crimes committed with guns were committed with guns purchased from a retail location. You do the math.</p>

<p>And let’s look at his other positions, as a Constitutional scholar. He believes the 2nd Amendment is an individual right but that cities should have the power to restrict gun ownership by banning handguns and self-defense inside the home (supports DC handgun ban, Chicago gun control, and voted against SB 2165, an Illinois bill that indemnifies those who defend themselves inside their homes). We will see how the Supreme Court rules but if you apply the idea that cities can limit a Constitutional right to other amendments, we are back in the days of the Sedition Act. I’m not saying as soon as we ban guns in San Francisco and DC that free speech is next but if it is an individual, Constitutional right as Obama says, why should be approve the double-standard?</p>

<p>There are 50 states in the United States. Only 2 of those 50 states do not have some form of concealed carry (either shall issue, may issue, or no permit required). Those states are Wisconsin and Illinois. Obama opposes concealed carry because, “I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations.” Concealed carry has been around for the last 20 years or so and we’re seeing record low violent crime figures and very little crime by CCW holders. I’m not claiming that concealed carry has reduced crime but there has not been a spike in crime since the introduction of concealed carry. These predictions of OK Corral and blood in the streets were all made about concealed carry and haven’t come true. States have sought to expand concealed carry (the Florida and Georgia parking lot bills being recent examples), not restrict it or repeal it. As for Obama’s professed support of a ban on semiautomatic handguns, I believe it is inherently unconstitutional and limits the original intent of the 2nd Amendment unjustly. Hillary’s positions are well known thanks to her support of the cosmetic 1994 ban. </p>

<p>I don’t mean to derail this thread by getting up on my soapbox but I think it’s important for those who do not follow gun control to understand that Obama’s views are out of the mainstream, even for gun control advocates. I will credit Obama for being honest and coming out against concealed carry in the month leading up to the PA primary, a state with 600,000 concealed carry holders and a city violating state law to pass gun control (Philadelphia and preemption).</p>

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<p>As a small-town PA resident, I (mostly) agree with his comments. Sure, they may not have been politically correct (ugh, PC), but there was certainly some truth to them. He’ll still have my vote on the 22nd :/</p>

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<p>While I’m sure there are some people who cling religion and guns (things they are familiar with) when things get tough, that is a HUGE generalization to make. Obama, as an intelligent person, should realize that generalizing religious people and gun-rights proponents as scared, bitter people is an outright stupid thing to imply (beyond being inaccurate)…especially when campaigning in areas with large populations of religious people and gun owners!</p>

<p>Obama has since said that he regretted offending people, but I wonder if he is as sorry about making that inaccurate generalization…</p>

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<p>So what all you folks are saying is that Obama may have been right, but it was “politically incorrect” of him to say it. Funny how that “politically correct” things isn’t so sneer-worthy when it’s your “correctness” that’s offended.</p>

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<p>No, they aren’t saying that, and it wasn’t a good thing for Obama to say. </p>

<p>There are cultures in America that do like to hunt. They haven’t been taught it is wrong, so of course they would be offended by such a statement. </p>

<p>Usually people who go to church are the ones who need it most, and certainly don’t want to be told that.</p>

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<p>What I’ve been wondering for the last day or two, is if this has really changed anyone’s choice of who they’re voting for. Meaning, if someone was an Obama supporter before, it’s unlikely this comment will have any impact on their vote. If someone was a Hillary supporter before, they’re just using this incident to become more vocal against Obama. </p>

<p>I suspect the people posting here who are defending Obama were people who supported him all along, and people who have been Hillary defenders are just more vocal for the time being while they think they have something to be more vocal about. Yes, there are undecided voters who may be swayed by this, but I think they might be swayed either way -either being offended by what Obama said, or realizing Hillary and her $109 million income are being incredibly hypocritical in saying Obama is out of touch with certain classes of Americans. And to be fair, while everyone thinks McCain is loaded, by himself he is worth very little. His wife is obviously very wealthy, but they have a pre-nup, so it’s not like he’s been independently wealthy his whole life. However, I’m sure the social circles they run in represent his wife’s economic wealth as opposed to his.</p>

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<p>He was referring to the fact that many of those voters vote republican not on the basis of things that would benefit them economically or healthcare or educationwise, but they vote based on issues of abortion, gay marriage, and gun control.</p>

<p>But i do agree that “cling” was poor word choice and shouldn’t have been used around the word religion.</p>

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<p>Stellena - I guess I wasn’t clear in my question. I’m not saying Hillary won’t still win Pennsylvania. I’m just wondering if this flap will really change anyone’s already-decision. While it was the Huffington Post that originally provided the San Francisco speech, last night I read about seven stories linked from the front page admonishing Hillary for her reaction to it, and attempt to suck up to gun owners. </p>

<p>So I was just at the Obama site, after I read your post, and there is a great follow up. They asked Pennsylvanians to provide their personal stories of how Obama’s message speaks to them, in the context of their own economic situation. It’s reassuring to read people still believe in his message and are willing to look deeper into who he is, as opposed to listening to what Hillary is saying about him.</p>